Hi r/atheism, what I don't get is, how does posting images *anonymously* on the internet translate into upholding 'freedom of speech'?

long_time_lurker · 2 years

most people here use imgur for image hosting

Any artist, proud of his work, would include his name on that pic, to take the credit. That doesn't happen here. Explain that.

there are reasons to stay anonymous on a place like this that have absolutely nothing to do with being ashamed of your message or afraid of Muslim terrorists.

I agree. 2 points:

then why do you guys still post the pics anonymously and say it is to oppose restrictions on free speech that are actually applicable only to an individual (someone with an identity)? ---> "hey, I have freedom of speech as long as no one knows it's me talking*
Don't really hear of any demonstrations in REAL LIFE where these cartoons from 4chan and r/atheism are displayed. Why is that? Hey am I making a "hasty conclusion" by assuming that you guys do not do any real world protests that display these pictures?

You come off like a troll ... so no more replies from me.

"You are a troll" ... the final excuse to end all excuses. No more replies from you? Oh I am soo disappointed, you were making so many valid points in the previous 4-5 comments, not.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

So, you got no more points to make? You got 5 chances to explain. You made some random, 'apologetic' points:

"as long your actions are not any more worse than some crazy Muslim fanatic's, those actions are justified"
Calling those extremely NSFW drawings as "silly".
Implying that Muslims fear they will worship those silly drawings
Free speech is not about the individual. Oh, right, anonymous rights to freedom of speech, not 'individual' rights to freedom of speech. Makes sense.

All these points look somewhat stupid to you? That's because they are. Maybe that's the reason why you don't want to be associated with these activities publicly, how would you justify all these activities in real life? You couldn't do that here, even after 5 tries.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

I don't see or hear of any demonstrations with people displaying those images publicly. You guys don't post any news articles or pics of such demonstrations. None of you post relevant articles (i.e. articles that display those images in the name of free speech) from your own personal blog. (note: personal implies non-anonymous). It's like as if you guys are actually ashamed of what you are doing and hence don't want to be publicly associated with such activities.

But I may be wrong, of course. So, feel free to correct me. I am waiting.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Why do you think that this is not happening?

Death threats? Hate speech laws? Isn't that what you were fighting against in the first place? But these don't make sense when you are anonymous. I requote:

that's like saying, "hey, I have freedom of speech as long as no one knows it's me talking i.e. as long as I do not get 'caught' exercising my freedom" (here 'caught' implies death threats, hate speech legislations etc)

And we are back to square one.

I have an idea, why don't you sit down and write a clear reasoned comment arguing against my points, instead of ... well, whatever you think you are doing now.

workingsmart · 2 years

Is your question, "it will definitely create an uproar and catch everyone's attention, which is what you want, right?"?

No. Read the comment again.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

You're assuming we care if we get "caught"

So why aren't you (and the others here) fighting for your 'rights' non-anonymously?

you're assuming that if one posts images anonymously, that they are trying to hide behind it.

Anonymous means hiding your identity. The end.

We have freedom to speak anonymously AND otherwise, not one or the other.

Read my comments again. Point out where this ('not one or the other') is stated/implied.

So basically you didn't make any points here. Except a triumphant accusation of "False Dichotomy" which turned out to be unfounded.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

So, as long as what you do is not as bad as violently killing people, it's OK? So as long your actions are not any more worse than some crazy Muslim fanatic's, those actions are justified?

I mean, despite sincerely trying to defend your (and r/atheism's) position, is that the best you can do? Really, I am forced to assume, since you guys are not able to defend your position at all, you are all just being deliberately hypocritical. My question is why? Is it because you guys want to be taken seriously? Well you lost that privilege the day you all deliberated over 'collaborating' with YouTube and 4chan.

edit: Aah, I just noticed, someone just did a blanket downvote of all my comments in the thread (all of them lost 1 point at the same time). Was it you by any chance? Are you that petty?

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Ooh now I am troll also. That coming from a guy whose comments on this post, right from the very first one, were unwarrantedly sarcastic and insulting, and who made no attempts to enter into a legitimate discussion. I like this. What other excuses do you have up your sleeve? That I am stupid? Go on say it, after all that's the no. 2 excuse in r/atheism, no. 1 being "you are a troll".

long_time_lurker · 2 years

If this was about hate, this explosion of Mohammad images would be ongoing instead of being in response to intolerance.

There's an easier way to decide this. If your 'response to intolerance' somehow coincides with 4chan's (THE Internet Hate Machine) explosion of hate, you know what to conclude. Difference between 4chan and r/atheism, 4chan is not a hypocrite. They admit their hate openly.

We are showing them they have no reason to be violent over silly drawings

Some of the drawings floating around on r/atheism are definitely not 'silly'. If it was really about showing that there is no reason to be violent about silly drawing, then wouldn't the drawing be more satirical and funny, instead of being practically NSFW?

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Aah, still didn't bother to answer my questions but definitely made quite an effort to insult me. You know, even a moron can read these signs.

The way I see it, you guys are like school-children, you don't have the emotional maturity to handle anybody who talks and dresses differently, instead you choose to make him a subject of scorn and ridicule. You have to 'conform', otherwise you end up getting 'targeted'.

Show me any comment or any post in the whole of r/atheism that expresses a true but generally unpopular (in r/atheism) opinion and was still upvoted? Come on, I am waiting. Oh wait, I won't get an answer out of you, me being a whining dick and all that. Smart move.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

So before it was because I was a whining bitch, now it's because I am a dick? Is that the reason why you still bother to reply to me, but don't bother to address my points? Hmm, very convenient, I must say.

workingsmart · 2 years

Ahem, I will just attach this post of mine to the top comment since it is very relevant: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/bvau1/hi_ratheism_what_i_dont_get_is_how_does_posting/

You already have the freedom to do just about anything as long as you are anonymous. Posting insulting images on the internet, that's a statement for freedom of the internet (freedom from censorship etc), not your freedom. How can you make a statement about your freedom if you are anonymous? Your freedom is linked to your identity. Also your efforts won't have much legitimacy if you just confine them to the internet. Isn't something like peaceful protests and gatherings in REAL LIFE a much more effective approach?

No need to worry, no one's going to suicide bomb you for displaying those images in public. But yes, it will definitely create an uproar and catch everyone's attention, which is what you want, right?

The only thing that posting defamatory images on the internet will achieve is give the governments just another excuse to censor the Internet.

There were 12 downvotes to that post but no attempts to seriously answer my question. I don't want to generalize so I will just say this: there are at least 12 r/atheism users who would rather converse with like-minded people (an euphemism for 'circlejerk'-ing), than attempt to answer questions that, well, attempt to question their views. You know some people would say this applies to all of r/atheism, but hey I am not gonna generalize.

Waiting patiently replies OR downvotes (it's your choice) ...

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Ooops, 5 upvotes / 11 downvotes now. And still no one bothers to answer (except to call me names or make sarcastic remarks). What about you Mr? You have any point to make apart from my bitching about downvotes? No? It's OK, just downvote and go away. You needn't answer that question.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

I see you made an effort to reply to my post. I also see that apart from name-calling, you haven't made a single point to refute my arguments. So it seems, correct me if I am wrong, you have no point to make, you just want to insult me. Actually kinda what the whole point of my post is about, you just want to hate and insult Muslims, it's not about any point you are trying to make regarding 'freedom of speech' etc etc.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Free speech as an ideal is why the internet is anonymous in the first place, so it's simply ignorant to say that taking advantage of the anonymity of the internet doesn't count as free speech.

So shouting anonymously on the internet is freedom of speech .... that's like saying, "hey, I have freedom of speech as long as no one knows it's me talking i.e. I as long as I do not get 'caught' exercising my freedom". Haha.

If you really trying to say that this issue is about maintaining the anonymity of the internet and non-censorship, then you, my dear, are at odds with all those self-righteous kids in r/atheism (seems like their problem has more to do with blasphemy laws and hate speech laws etc, which, btw, are relevant only to a person who is not anonymous since laws cannot be applied to an anonymous person)

As for the "your freedom" crap, that's pure horse manure (specifically of the equivocating variety). "Your" need not mean "associated with you as a social or legal entity" in this case, and in fact explicitly (from a philosophical perspective) is meant to signify "you as a free agent" (and if you don't know what a free agent is, go look it up your damned self, I ain't your google).

Seems more like a load of crap from you to hide the fact that you have no point to make. I just ask you one simple question, are you fighting for being allowed to say whatever you want anonymously, or are you fighting to be allowed to say whatever you want openly (non-anonymously) without, say, being put into jail for blasphemy/hate-speech etc.

. . . so basically you're either trolling or deeply stupid.

Yup, that's how every r/atheism guy ends his comments when someone (god forbid) disagrees with them ... "you are a troll" or "you are stupid". Easiest way to 'win' an argument ever.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

Man, you don't get the point, do you? For an anonymous person, speech is already free. So whatever you guys are trying to do, it's gonna accomplish nothing, absolutely nothing, as long as you are anonymous.

I know you guys are doing all this just because of your hate and not because of some 'freesom of speech' ideal. What I am trying to do here, is point out the inconsistency in what you purport to be doing and what you are actually doing.

long_time_lurker · 2 years

And now you're aware the reason for it is whining about downvotes.

Yup, that's why r/atheism downvotes.

I wrote the 'edit' after 25 minutes when there were no replies but already 3 downvotes. Seems like you guys don't like facing the truth.

You know I never understood why people here are such hypocrites even when they are all anonymous and on the internet. What's the problem with admitting that you guys just LOVE to hate? That it has got nothing to do with 'freedom of speech' and bhah blah? If 4chan can admit it, why not you?

long_time_lurker

TROPHY CASE

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