Changing the Gem system, yay or nay?

DirtySyko · 2012-05-24T10:02:36.034916+00:00

Yeah I figured some of my examples were overpowered, I was just tossing out general ideas. The gem system would be much more enjoyable if there was something to go after other than your main stat, vitality and damage. I want to see some more variety.

hugosalvatore · 2012-05-24T02:29:06.776548+00:00

I played D2 in 2000, I was 14, and I played it for years. I am definitely not wearing nostalgia glasses or anything or looking back on D2 like it was the pinnacle of gaming perfection. It is my favorite game, but it was plagued with a lot of problems that I'm glad D3 is trying to correct.

But D3 is also plagued with a lot of problems. Good thing is, it's very early and there's time to fix it. I just don't know what Blizzard is and isn't going to change. I think this is a really fun game with the potential to be great. It's easy to just look at forums and see nothing but complaints, but realize that nobody complains this much that isn't totally loving the game, or interested in seeing it get better. Some peopl just aren't very good at vocalizing their opinions though, and they're usually found on the Blizzard official forums.

I think the game needs to fix itemization, allow items to have more affixes/create more interesting affixes, act boss challenge, do something more interesting with the gemming system, and tweak the auction house. Some of those things I'm confident Blizzard will tackle and change, others I'm not sure of. I do believe in 6 months we will be playing a game that feels a lot different than it does today.

Bookah · 2012-05-24T02:22:04.795031+00:00

I wrote a lengthy post already covering some things I believe should be changed to make a much more enjoyable game. I believe bosses should be given random affixes like Elite mobs, so every encounter is different. It would be even more fun if the random affixes they were given were unique to them. In some scenarios Diablo might summon little fire demons who charge you and explode. In another scenario Diablo might rain meteors from the sky. If Blizzard doesn't want people farming bosses they have to make bosses a consistent challenge, and if they aren't given an element of randomness like Elite mobs have people will eventually learn routine and they will no longer be a challenge.

I have to disagree with hidden affixes though. I don't see the reason for that beyond making things even more difficult. It's already hard enough as it is going up against mobs in Inferno with 4 affixes, some of which are very deadly combinations, and dying 10+ times before finally killing them. With hidden affixes you would just die 3 or 5 times until you were able to go, "Oh ok, so it looks like it's vortex, molten, illusion and shield. Now I can die some more before killing them, but at least I know what I'm up against!"

OneoftheChosen · 1 day

Problem is, how exactly does Blizzard fix this? Nerfing the classes will happen, but it doesn't fix the damage already done by high powered items flooding the market. They can't just remove the items and now they're readily available for everyone, so nobody actually has to farm anything now.

I have a feeling some of that upper tier gear is selling for a lot less than it would have been if nobody would have beaten Inferno in a month or two. They can't overprice it or it won't sell. It's only been a week so not many people are rolling in gold. If this had happened after two months of playing they'd be priced a lot higher since gold will be much more abundant.

Imphillamarr · 1 day

Why don't you tell my man Vincent where you got the shit hid at?

DirtySyko · 2 days

None of the affixes are useless, they just aren't desired. Nobody is going to search the auction house for those undesirable affixes. That's why I think it'd be better to have a higher cap on affixes an item can have, because you'd then have the chance to get the stats you need as well as bonus stats you want. As it is there are specific stats most people are after and when the other, lesser desired affixes show up it just takes up a spot for a better stat. Instead of taking up a spot, add more spots, and then people might be more interested in the less desired affixes.

DirtySyko · 2 days

The very well rolled magic items are not less common than legendary items, that's one of the issues. Looking a the AH makes that very clear. There's an abundance of high damage magic weapons or high stat magic items. So, they are not at all hard to get, and they sell much cheaper on the AH than rares and legendaries.

What exactly is it you do in this game besides continue grinding and playing for loot? Easily obtainable, powerful and cheap magic items that are better than a lot of expensive rares and legendary items creates much less desire to continue looking for awesome items. That's why I think there should just be a cap on how powerful they can be. Forget about them. Move on. Look for the rares and legendary items, the stuff that doesn't drop as much.

I'm all for randomness in my rares. I'm not for a bunch of powerful blue items flooding the market for cheap prices and hurting the economy and making the harder to attain items look bad.

DirtySyko · 2 days

I've mentioned numerous times I want rares to be powerful, and in some cases more so than legendary items. I like the random chance of having an amazing rare or a very trashy rare. I've already posted that I think end game should consist of characters using a mix of rares and legendary items. Never once did I say you should be fully decked out in legendary gear. I am a classic D2 player and I loved the beginning of D2 when rares were important, but if you're going to have legendary items in the game they need to serve a purpose. What is their purpose now besides being extremely hard to find and looking cool? They also need to be powerful items, and as it stands they are easily replaceable and very hard to find.

And the limitation on affixes is going to hurt customization. People already just look for items with their main stat+vit+sockets. Not limiting items to such a low amount of affixes opens up a lot more choices in what kind of items you want. You'll always want items with your main stats, but more affixes means you can get items with those stats you need and then customize the rest with affixes you want.

This game will also certainly turn into a boss run game for loot grinding because of bosses being substantially easier than elite mobs. I'm OK with boss runs for items as long as the fights remain interesting, but they won't if they are not given random abilities like elite mobs.

DirtySyko · 2 days

But, that's still not the way it is. People are not using Legendary items because they're not good enough.

I want to see an end game with a mix of rares and legendary items. I also don't mind there being a chance for ubber rare items to beat out legendary items, if you get really lucky. Magic items, not so much. A subpar tier Hell rare should beat a very good tier Hell Magic item, and a Magic item should not come close to a good rare, or even touch the lowest quality Legendary item.

Let's say I'm in Nightmare. I'm level 36. I'm using a level 34 Magic sword that has really good qualities for my Barbarian. It has top level strength and +damage. If a legendary sword drops that's also a level 34 item, even if it rolls the worst possible stats, I expect to be replacing my dull, boring, bland and uninteresting Blue item immediately. This isn't how it currently works in Diablo 3. If you're using a magic sword with those stats for your Barbarian and a legendary sword drops, you put the legendary sword up on the AH for 1 million gold so other people can laugh at how weak and useless it is.

DirtySyko · 2 days

If you want to see real whining, venture into the Blizzard forums. Most of the people here try to articulate their concerns and dislikes about the game in a respectable way. Blizzard also likes to make it known that they do listen to their fanbase, they want feedback, and they want to continue making the game more fun. If people don't voice what they feel needs to be changed, then nothing changes.

Are you implying the game is flawless as is? If you disagree, then disagree and state your reasons why. Tell me why you'll still be playing this game in two years. What will keep you coming back? I am voicing my opinion and I am doing so in a manner that isn't negative or condescending. I took the time to write out the things I'd like to see changed that I believe could make a good game even better. I wouldn't do that for a game I didn't care about. You took the time to make a snide and unjustified remark.

If you don't want to be involved in leaving feedback for the game then continue playing and enjoying it. Don't interfere with those of us who want to see the game mature into something more.

DirtySyko · 2 days

There was a spoiler tag in the title. The title was a dead give away that I'd be posting spoilers.

DirtySyko · 2 days

It's that exact comment that makes me worry they will never change the mechanics of boss fights. They may tweak itemization, they may even do something with the affixes, and they'll definitely alter the auction house... But we could possibly be stuck with fighting the same boss fights over until we master them and they just serve as a loot farm for our 5 stack of Nephelam Valor.

DirtySyko · 2 days

The early game crafting and jeweling system is definitely broken. Nobody can argue with that. It's a fact that it's clearly cheaper to buy from the AH for those lower level items and gems. I wish it was better too, but end game is my biggest concern.

Some people might not like it, but it's true; this game is similar to WoW in the sense that it wants to heavily cater towards end game. End game is almost where the game actually begins. Level 1 - 59 is just a small percentage of your game play experience. A lot of players will be doing most of their playing at max level, so this is where you really need to focus on doing it right.

I'd love to see them shape up the early stages of the game (Seriously, put a fucking level cap on gems. Level 10 characters shouldn't be able to use end game gems, that's crazy.) But, screwing up the early game doesn't have consequences on the longevity of the game like screwing up the end game. If you want me to keep logging back on to play my level 60 Witch Doctor, you have to give me a good reason to do so. Finding overpowered magic items, underwhelming legendary items, and fighting cakewalk boss fights isn't going to do it.

I also want to comment real quick: I think the boss fights were really well done. They are fun, I enjoyed every single major boss fight. But, unlike a single player game where I could play through one time and be like, "Damn, those boss fights were awesome!" I am going to be playing this game over and over again. So, they have to do more for those bosses. You can't keep throwing me into the same fight, give me something unexpected and challenging.

DirtySyko · 2 days

I don't want to say they fucked it up because I still really enjoy this game. Nobody puts 50 hours into a game within less than a week of it being released and can say, "Wow this game is bad."

No, this game is amazing. It just has the potential to be REALLY FUCKING AMAZING. I can play an amazing game for a good few months, but after that I'll probably move on. But a game that is REALLY FUCKING AMAZING can have me addicted for a few years.

I just don't think it's possible to internally test what was going to happen in a game like this with the limited amount of testers they had. It's now opened to millions of players, and they're probably just as surprised as we are to how things are shaping. The real issue now is, what are they going to do about it?

DirtySyko · 2 days

You can probably include this into my second point I make about item affixes. Sure, CC reduction is really cool and I would love to have more of it. However, there's a lot more stats I'd rather have, so all CC reduction does is take up an affix spot that could be better.

More, more, more affixes. I want to know I have the chance of finding an item with everything I could hope for, PLUS CC reduction, +physical resistance, gold radius pick-up, 5% magic find and melee attackers take 48 damage per attack. A lot of those extra affixes would not make or break the item's value, but they are certainly a welcoming bonus.

Every single time I search the AH for an item, I search by Int, Vit and sockets (Witch Doctor) I assume just the majority of everyone else is doing the exact same thing, just using their main stat. That's bad and it's limiting. Open up more affixes, open up more specific searches. Then I can start searching for an item with Int, Vit, socket, CC reduction, +physical resistance, Stun on hit %, etc. etc. It opens up a whole new world of cool items you can have, it makes things so much more fun, and it can really help narrow your searches.

DirtySyko · 2 days

It's thoughts like this that keep me excited to continue playing. I want to be playing this game one, two or three years from now, but it's definitely going to need some big changes for that to happen. I would like it if Blizzard chimed in to some of these posts and let us know they were listening and considering these changes. As of right now I just feel like the minority stomping my feet and whining while other people are saying, "Dude, the game is fine the way it is."

DirtySyko · 2 days

Even if some legendary item has the possibility of dropping with perfect stats, and those perfect stats make it better than some magic item, the chances are much, much lower. Good magic items are a dime a dozen, and it would not be hard to find one to replace whatever mediocre legendary item you are using. Legendary items are already hard to find (I have found none in 50 hours of playing and being level 60) so it would be even more difficult to find one with perfect stats. The point is, even if a legendary item drops with subpar stats, it should best a magic item. They should even best rare items, because rares are also a dime a dozen when compared to legendary drops. The rarer the drop the more powerful it should be, that just sounds like common sense to me. I still think ubber powerful rares that are even better than legendaries should exist, but rolling those perfect stats for that to happen should be more rare than a legendary drop. Anyways, Magic items are not meant for end game, they are items to be used in Normal mode and Nightmare. By the end of Nightmare most of your stuff should be rare with the exception of maybe a few overly good magic items. Once you enter Hell, the subpar rare items should be replacing the very good magic items in Nightmare, until magic items only serve as disenchanting material or vendor cash. Magic items in Hell and Inferno should basically become what white items are in Normal, albeit a bit more valuable because of disenchanting and vendor value.
I agree, I like the randomness. I did mention that I'm completely fine with class specific items dropping with abilities meant for other classes. The randomness makes it fun because it's humorous finding a quiver that has Witch Doctor ability bonuses on it. I just think the limit of affixes negatively effects this because it causes situations like that to completely devalue the item. If the limit was raised substantially, or altogether dropped, it wouldn't matter so much if you had items with silly stats because those silly stats wouldn't technically be taking up room for better stats. You could always get the best stats you want, plus silly stats. Another poster made a good point that maybe you could categorize affixes. You have the power ones that people always want, and any item can only contain a certain number of those, and then trash affixes that nobody looks for in itemizing their character, and do not let those interfere with the max number of affixes. Because, let's be honest, nobody has searched the auction house for Knockback % or increased health gain from globes. That doesn't make them useless, it just makes them second tier to important, viable stats. I want to be able to get a cool weapon that gives me all the base stats I need as well as elemental damage, attack speed and sockets, and then have the luxury of being lucky to also get extra affixes like Knockback % or health globe increase. I don't want those latter affixes taking up better, more viable affix spots though, and that's exactly what they do at the moment.
I mentioned in my post that I am in Inferno and boss fights are still not much of a challenge. Yeah, Belial in Hell can kill me in one shot with his little poison explosions, and it did happen, but it doesn't take long to adjust and learn how to completely avoid them. Good luck adjusting to the elite mobs and their random affixes and being able to dominate them every time in the variety of environments you'll encounter them in. It just won't happen. Bosses need a similar system or everybody will eventually be able to take them on with ease. It's only been a week and many people can already fight the minor and major Act bosses without dying in the later difficulties. This is because their mechanics never change and you just have to learn routine when fighting them. Give them random affixes that change every time you fight them and it won't be nearly as simple.
I agree, but I'm still not completely sure about the other concerns I have. Especially boss fights and additional affixes. That's what I'm most worried will never change.

tetracycloide · 3 days

Damn, and he got 3 rares from that? So at 200% you could assume you would be seeing like 6+ rares?

coelomate · 3 days

I honestly think as more people reach end game, more people will discuss the problems. If Blizzard doesn't listen and change the current system there's plenty of people who will probably jump ship to Guild Wars 2 or even back to WoW, or whatever else they can dedicate time to. Two years from now I'd love to still be playing this game, just like I was D2, but if certain things are not tweaked/changed this could be a game I play for just a few months.

I understand it's very, very early. I don't want to worry too much. D2 changed a lot over time. I should just enjoy the game for the time being, and hope Blizzard makes these changes in the future.

Stoichio · 3 days

I hate this because it fucks up the search system. They shouldn't even let you sell with a gem in your item.

tetracycloide · 3 days

It's good to see the buff makes boss fights worth fighting, because it's sad to see no rares dropped from bosses in Nightmare or Hell before level 60. However, I wonder what the valor buff is going to do to magic find. If having the buff is enough to get good drops from bosses, is it then pointless to bother with stacking magic find?

I guess we'll know when someone well stacked with magic find and a full valor buff downs a boss.

coelomate · 3 days

I hope you're right OP. I played D2 at launch and I remember how it was, so I've been telling myself the same thing about this game. I'm having a blast playing, but I feel like there's some big tweaking that needs to be done. My concern is that Blizzard might not agree and those of us who think the itemization is screwed up might be seen as the vocal minority. I also wonder how they would fix it now that all these powerful magic items are available on the AH. If they make legendaries stronger they will lessen the challenge of Inferno, unless they also tweak difficulties.

I just want powerful legendaries and set items, good rares with a slim chance for them to be very powerful too, and magic items to not be viable end game gear. Are there people who do not want the system like that?

mvtsc2 · 4 days

I didn't have too many issues getting through it. I definitely wiped a fair share of times, and The Butcher put up a decent fight. I was with a friend my level and on our 4th Butcher attempt I decided to step up my game. My friend died like 6 or 7 times during the fight and I was able to keep bringing him back. It was very intense to say the least.

DirtySyko

TROPHY CASE

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