this post was submitted on
8 points (75% like it)
12 up votes 4 down votes
all 30 comments

[–]chemdude1232 10 points11 points ago*

I think the cosmopolitical structure of the Federation would have been sufficiently altered to make the probability of a TNG-style mission to be pretty low.

Bear in mind that with the surviving Vulcans needing relocation, goods and materials will likely be diverted to aid in the measures. As such, personnel movements might restrict where officers are stationed and in what duty.

With the need to fill the vacuum (pardon the pun) of the loss of the planet Vulcan, space exploration might take a serious backseat for the next 50 or 60 years.

Consider also that if/when the Klingons or Romulans hear of the destruction of Vulcan, they might take advantage of the situation and attack the Federation. Should that happen, the casualties would be immense. That alone could sufficiently alter the historical makeup of the TNG characters vis a vis killing their ancestors.

[–]avidday 0 points1 point ago

Consider also that if/when the Klingons or Romulans hear of the destruction of Vulcan, they might take advantage of the situation and attack the Federation. Should that happen, the casualties would be immense.

I have wondered several times about this happening and if Spock Prime would give the Federation some late 24th century technology (quantum torpedoes, warp 9.9 capable drives, ablative armor, biogel processors, replicators, etc.) in order to fend off the attackers given the weakness of Starfleet without any Vulcans. It would be logical that, in order for the Vulcan race to survive, the Federation cannot tie its resources up in a long war, let alone a war on multiple fronts.

What decision do you think Spock Prime would make? Would he hold to principles of the federation and uphold the Temporal Prime Directive potentially at the cost of his entire race, or decide that the TPD is pretty much out the window thanks to Nero and make sure the war, if it were to happen, would be short and very lop-sided?

[–]infohawk 1 point2 points ago*

The odds won't be low in the Star Trek universe even though common sense would say otherwise. Let's look at the alternate universe in the series. Even though Kirk and Spock changed everything in the alternate universe in TOS, somehow Sisko et al were all born and ended up near DS9 a hundred of years into the future in the alternate universe.

So in the Star Trek world (regardless of real world butterfly effects), there will be a Picard, Riker, Data, etc and there lives will intersect although in potentially different ways.

[–]chemdude1232 1 point2 points ago

One of the points I was trying to make re: the hypothetical war is that ancestors could die. It's not a 100% foregone conclusion that, for instance, a Soong grandparent could die before Noonien is born.

[–]infohawk 0 points1 point ago

In the series' mirror universe, there was an invasion of the Terran Empire by the Klingon-Cardassian Empire as a result of TOS Kirk's actions. And yet this didn't remove any of the mirror DS9 characters' births far into the future. You can't get more dramatic a change than that. So again, in the Star Trek universe, characters will still be born.

In the reboot universe, even less has changed. So there will likely be all the TNG characters with minor changes. And especially since the Federation will still exist minus Vulcan they will still have an exploratory mission. From a producton viewpoint, if the further reboots are also successful I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a TNG reboot 15 years down the line.

[–]Belryan 1 point2 points ago

The Mirror Universe is fun, but completely defies all plausibility. Statistically it would be pretty much impossible for the same people to be born in both universes when the "split" between the two universes happened (i.e. two hundred years before Kirk and Spock). Kirk and Spock shouldn't have even been born in the Mirror Universe, because for them to be born, them and every single one of their ancestors would have had to have been born from the exact same gametes.

So it's fun from a story perspective, but realistically impossible.

[–]infohawk 1 point2 points ago

I don't disagree, but I'm sure some explanation could be given the same way there was a reason given for the high frequency of oxygen-breathing humanoids.

[–]Heiroglyph 0 points1 point ago

That's one of the many reasons I don't like mirror episodes.

[–]eph798 2 points3 points ago

Yes, it's conceivable.

As Prime Spock conjectured in the movie, the timeline "seems to be trying to correct itself"--Kirk being stranded on the planet where Prime Spock was marooned and where Scotty was stationed, etc.

Given that, it seems entirely possible that some version of the Enterprise D and the crew we know could happen in the altered timeline.

[–]Belryan 6 points7 points ago

Unbeknownst to Spock Prime, it's not the "timeline" trying to correct itself, but Q being Q :D

[–]BumbleguppysRevenant 2 points3 points ago

I wonder that in the new timeline, time travel might be taken more seriously. I mean, Vulcan is destroyed by a time traveler, and not just some easily-swept-under-the-rug and classified top secret time traveler. Ordinary Federation citizens might start clamoring for an agency to monitor the timeline long before the agency that appeared in Voyager and ST:ENT.

Though I suppose that fact time travel was involved may still be kept secret...ah, well. What do I know.

[–]Belryan 3 points4 points ago

Consider the odds of being born. What makes you, you, is the product of one sperm, and one egg. If your parents had not have had sex when they did, that specific sperm would not have merged with that specific egg. Even a difference of five minutes in either direction might mean that a different sperm "win" and thus the product is a completely different person.

Now, imagine how many people were killed by the Narada, and how much work and restructuring of the Federation are represented by the destruction of Vulcan.

So, I'm not saying that "TNG" won't happen, but statistically it's extremely unlikely that the exact events that produced all of the characters of the TNG era still happen in order to produce those same characters. So, while Picard's parents might still meet and have children together, unless the entirety of their lives are entirely unaffected by the events of the movie, it is very unlikely that they will produce Jean-Luc and Robert as we know them.

And the same goes to pretty much every character in TNG. This is why a lot of time travel stories kind of fall flat, because if you have major impact on the past, the future will be extremely altered on an individual basis, as the circumstances surrounding the conception of many many people would likely be subtly altered, producing an entirely different set of individuals.

[–]TheGhostWhoWalks 4 points5 points ago

The 2009 Trek movie states that it's events take place in an alternate reality not an altered timeline. All previous series and movies occurred don't fret, as far as anyone is concerned in the "Prime Universe" (as some have taken to calling it) ambassador Spock died trying to save Romulus.

[–]jgzman 2 points3 points ago

If you head over to Star Trek Online, it offers a timeline of events after that nova, including some very serious stretching to cover the idea of a nova destroying a planet without the inhabitants getting a few decades of warning.

[–]Deviant_Orphan 2 points3 points ago

it also lets us know that data awakens in B4 and became captain of the Enterprise E. :D im glad they pretty much just retconned what happened in nemisis. killing data was stupid. there is soo much more you can explore with him.

[–]TheGhostWhoWalks 0 points1 point ago

I wouldn't consider that a recton as Nemesis did imply that Data would return through B4, like the whole Spock katra transference. It is only fitting that Data take command of the Enterprise when Picard becomes an ambassador.

[–]Deviant_Orphan 0 points1 point ago

that's true, since they hint with him whistling, but i just feel that data's death was so pointless i would rather view as it never happened. i don't mean pointless in the sense of the story but in that it was just a stupid plot device. could have easily been that they both could be teleported out.

[–]TheGhostWhoWalks 1 point2 points ago

I always felt that his death was closure to one part of his journey not just dying for his Captain but his friend. His last act, one of compassion, a final show of the humanity he thought unattainable through an act of self-sacrifice. Like the end of the hero's journey rebirth awaits. A bit too philosophical an interpretation for my taste but that how I always saw it.

[–]Deviant_Orphan 0 points1 point ago

don't get me wrong i feel the same way. when i walked out of the theatre i thought data has completed his journey to becoming human. like i said story stand point it makes sense. but really it was just a plot device in the movie to add drama to the movie. it wasn't needed and they could have made the movie interesting without the need for data to be killed. it was a stupid plot device to force some emotion into it. while i don't hate nemsis like others do i was disappointed they decide to go the way they did with it.

when b4 came about i thought it would be a cool idea to see data show another of his kind how to be human and we could see a relationship develop between brothers who didn't know each other. i saw it as a way of data becoming a teacher and exploring himself more through his pupil. instead they stamped retcon on his forehead. really lets face it that's what it is. they said hey let's kill data, but just incase we do another movie lets have b4 there to become data and it will be like nothing ever happened.

[–]TheGhostWhoWalks 1 point2 points ago

Ain't that the truth, but that's how it is with most movies though.

[–]Chamrajnagar 0 points1 point ago

others were tl;dr. I agree with this one though. I think TNG would be at least very similar in this alternate reality, prolly just more iDesign and lens flares

[–]Deviant_Orphan 1 point2 points ago

don't you dare give any one any ideas!

[–]orangehatguy 1 point2 points ago

Maybe not the Enterprise-D's mission, but certainly the characters could still show up. I'm thinking that since everyone on DS9 showed up in the mirror universe, why couldn't the same thing happen in the Abrams universe?

[–]Genuinely_Ironic 0 points1 point ago

I like to look at the mirror universe episodes as non-cannon.

[–]Krayt1x 1 point2 points ago*

What if the actions in the movie created the Mirror Universe in DS9...

Because Vulcan was destroyed the Klingons never sided with the federation as they were now too weak without the Vulcans at their full capacity. So the Klingons side with the Cardasians instead (that what has happened in the mirror has it not?)

[–]Genuinely_Ironic 0 points1 point ago

Good idea, but the mirror universe existed prior to tos, as there as an evil mirror nx01 in enterprise.

[–]Krayt1x 1 point2 points ago

Yeah i realized that and was hoping no one would pick it out hahaha.

(and its a great episode none the less)

[–]Corgana -1 points0 points ago

Are you saying you want to reboot TNG?

[–]tched[S] 2 points3 points ago

Noooooooo. Not at all.

[–]DirtPile 0 points1 point ago

No, OP is not saying that.