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[–]NauticalInsanity 13 points14 points ago

Ultimately, a macro nexus provides enough energy to keep a building under chronoboost ~50% of the time. Each chronoboost cuts 10s off of production time, so any production structure will receive a 25% boost to productivity. On two bases with a macro nexus, you can constantly chrono one forge and 50% chronoboost the other. That will get you a +3 attack or armor at 380 seconds as opposed to 430 with 50% chronoboost.

The verdict, a nexus is nowhere near as productive as adding another production structure and significantly more expensive. It can cut 50 seconds off a +3 timing attack, but you have to lay the nexus at a point where you're still building probes and those 400 minerals will eat into your economy meaning that with the cost of the super-fast upgrades, you'll likely not have a lot of units to take advantage of it. Not to mention in PvX, 2-base double forge gets your upgrades so fast anyway, that the 50 second advantage likely won't counteract your unit disadvantage.

The only concrete advantage a macro nexus has over more production structures is if you're using multiple kinds of production structures. The extra flexibility of chronoboost gives you flexibility in shifting your production priorities without leaving idle T2 production structures. Even then, the small boost to production a nexus gives is still vastly outweighed by its cost.

TL;DR 50 second cut in +3 timing. 400 minerals on a nexus means 5 void rays from a stargate instead of 4. 150/150 for an extra stargate means 8 void rays in that same amount of time. Not worth it.

[–]luckyButtonMasher[S] 1 point2 points ago

precisely what i was looking for. was too lazy to do the numbers/work has em blocked. thank you kindly.

[–]Mephibosheth 22 points23 points ago

ಠ_ಠ

[–]Mephibosheth 6 points7 points ago

To everyone who upvoted, you are an asshole. I only put this here to get a rise out of the OP. Turns out I'm not the only asshole.

[–]luckyButtonMasher[S] 6 points7 points ago

fwiw, i upvoted it, but appreciate the sentiment just the same

[–]masonmason22 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, I don't understand why people would think the concept is so absurd, Terran build macro CC's, Zerg build macro hatches, not a big leap in logic to wonder about macro nexuses.

[–]Stooben 1 point2 points ago

I hope this doesn't come across as rude but it is rather absurd. Terrans build macro cc's for several reasons. They can expand with the CC, get more SCV production going and get energy for scans and mules. Zergs get hatcheries for similar reasons. They can build more units simply by having more hatcheries. It's similar to building more production facilities. They have the options to save more larvae and produce queens faster. The hatchery is even 100 fewer minerals to throw down than a CC or Nexus.

The nexus isn't viable for several reasons. You can't move it. Chronoboost is normally used for probes, upgrades and sometimes robo/stargate units. By the time it would be possible to spend 400(!) minerals on a Nexus safely without expanding, you would be in the extreme late game and Chronoboosts would likely be built up on the Nexi being used as bases.

The best example I can think of to illustrate this unnecessary cost would be a Terran building a macro CC and then upgrading it to a Planetary. They can build more workers from it. It serves a small utility by being able to do something other than make workers. Ultimately you wouldn't ever do it.

This could change in HotS when the Nexus has other abilities.

[–]masonmason22 0 points1 point ago

It's not rude, I think I was just trying to justify OP's question. I think we should try and explain reasons to things (as you have).

I do hope that protoss gains a bit more depth in terms of economy/macro in the future.

[–]bucknasty69 0 points1 point ago

Macro CC's are good for getting proper saturation, mules, and the fact that you can liftoff the CC to put it elsewhere, making it extremely useful. Macro hatches are useful for unit production when you have a good economy. Macro Nexus's would never be useful. If you've got an extra 400 minerals expand somewhere.

[–]masonmason22 0 points1 point ago

But there are points when terran will make more CC's than he intends to have bases. I'm not saying it is a good idea, I'm saying wondering if Protoss gets macro nexues isn't stupid, as chrono can be cool and all the other races get macro capitol buildings.

[–]Mephibosheth 1 point2 points ago

I am a bronze level noobie so I have no "authority" in the matter. But I think it's good to question everything. No reason not to try it, or see what others think. Like I said the disapproving face is because I'm an asshole that's bored.

[–]onebigwaffle 0 points1 point ago

And now you are posting again to get a rise out of everyone else. I see what you are up to sir. Just causing trouble.

(still gave you an upvote)

[–]masonmason22 2 points3 points ago

A streamer called Hongun did a decent bit of Macro-nexus usage, against zerg (he used it to help wall off), catz also tried it when messing around as protoss. If you wanna see it in action look for some those replays, by the looks of things though, sadly, it never caught on (I really wish it did, because that'd be quite interesting).

It has also been discussed a decent bit over here and here. Just be aware that the first link may have been before most recent protoss-buffing patch.

[–]NoseKnowsAll 6 points7 points ago

It's actually 100% useful in monobattles. I get a macro nexus every time I play ladder 3v3s with my friends and I'm doing carriers, void rays, or colossi.

That being said - it's always better to take your (thinking 3rd) than get a macro nexus in 1v1s. Income comes from more bases, not from more chronoboost.

[–]jell-o 4 points5 points ago

No? No. No???

[–]Xujhan 2 points3 points ago

It is never worth it.

[–]ckcornflake 1 point2 points ago

Even very high level protoss players don't always stay on top of their chronoboosting. It's just not quite as important as mules or larvae. At the gold level it's absolutely not going to help you at all because you probably wouldn't spend it anyways.

If chronoboosts could stack, then a macro nexus might be getting somewhere, but I'm pretty sure that would be imba.

[–]tprpa412 0 points1 point ago

As a toss, stacking chronoboost would be insanely imba haha.

[–]masonmason22 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, I've actually noticed a surprising number of pro protoss will slip up in keeping ontop of their chrono, I think it's just due to the way protoss production and economy operates, it is hard to always use it all like you can with orbital energy.

[–]Promethium 1 point2 points ago

Sadly this went the way of the Supply Drop timing attacks Terran used to do very early in this game's life. People experimented a bit with it, concluded it's not worth it at really any stage and now you'll never see it again by someone who knows what they're doing.

[–]EVILEMU 0 points1 point ago

I was just thinking about the viability of this if you were contained on 2 bases. or if you wanted a safe 1 base all-in with nasty upgrades. extra probe production would help you saturate a third base faster. I don't quite think you get your money's worth from it, but it may be a neat idea for some special timing push.

[–]DUCKVILLELOL 1 point2 points ago

Only if you're doing my 16macronexus into fast mothership with fast +3 shields build in 4v4s. (No joke I do this a lot) Other than that, no.

[–]p0pnfr3sh89 1 point2 points ago

No.

[–]Nadril 0 points1 point ago

Never lol.

[–]RainbroDash -1 points0 points ago

Only if you were trolling a bronze player with mass probe rushes