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[–]kimwim42 9 points10 points ago

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here, here, and here. Have a good weekend. Oh, and this one is really good

[–]JustPassingTime 6 points7 points ago

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I refudiate these claims!

[–]causticmango 0 points1 point ago

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I believe the word you are looking for is "repudiate".

[–]weazx 6 points7 points ago

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I repute your claim!

[–]ToTheContrary 0 points1 point ago

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There is no mention of stem cells in your first article. That rat was made to walk by a combination of electrical impulses and a drug that acts on serotonin.
Here's one for stem cells + paralyzed rats.

[–]kimwim42 0 points1 point ago

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I stand corrected, thank you. I was too fast in my posting.

[–]whiteychs 0 points1 point ago

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Your 2nd and 3rd links deal with adult stem cell research, not embryonic.

Just sayin'. I'm not opposed to any research.

[–]kimwim42 0 points1 point ago

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Just saying, the headline asked about stem cell research, not embryonic.

[–]whiteychs 0 points1 point ago

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When people say they're opposed to stem cell research, it's usually (that I've seen) connected to religious sentiments and it's almost entirely restricted to the embryonic field ("killing" the embryo).

Adult embryonic research doesn't destroy an embryo and so there has been little to no vocal opposition to it. So, when people debate 'stem cell research' embryonic is implied. To disguise the advancements caused by adult stem cell research onto the embryonic research in order to shine a favorable light on embryonic research is dishonest.

I'm in favor of embryonic research. I am not in favor of willfully distorting facts to suit my argument.

[–]kimwim42 0 points1 point ago

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I 'do' stem cell research. I am distorting no facts.

[–]shaggy391 15 points16 points ago

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I believe we should set up an "I don't believe in this type of research" registry. When a cure for whatever is discovered, members of the list won't be allowed to participate.

[–]horshamer 3 points4 points ago

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Nah, I'd rather they have a deathbed conversion that they can walk away from. Like being a born-again scientist.

[–]tadrinth 2 points3 points ago

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Induced pluripotent stem cell technology will allow the creation of replacement organs from skin samples. As in, when your liver quits on you, doctors will be able to take a bit of your skin and grow you an entirely new one, without requiring a donor and without forcing you to take immune suppressants for the rest of your life to prevent rejection.

If they're against fetal stem cells, well, that's one thing, but you can reprogram cells from adults into stem cells.

[–]Beezlesnort 14 points15 points ago

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Point out that stem cells can be harvested from adults, and do not require grinding up babies to obtain.

[–]GregorMendel 4 points5 points ago

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Well, some can. It's a heck of a lot easier to start by grinding up babies, then refine the medical process to be specific to whatever adult needs whatever procedure.

[–]azurekevin 2 points3 points ago

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Fuck it, why can't we just keep grinding up babies and leave it that way?

[–]snarfy 2 points3 points ago

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Because Jesus says so, and the government and Jesus are like this (makes crossed fingers sign)

[–]GregorMendel 0 points1 point ago

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Hey I'm down with it. Just so long as the breeding pair that produced that baby consent.

[–]viciousbat 1 point2 points ago

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What? No more grinding up babies? Well then, to hell with this research. Assholes taking all the fun out things...mutter...mumble...rant.....oooh, something shiny...

[–]arizona_d 4 points5 points ago* 

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Sam Harris has one of the best arguments I have heard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUwnMX8ht3U

[–]SC0TTBL4M 0 points1 point ago

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Very good points. One thing I don't fully understand is what he said regarding all cells having potential to become human beings given the right manipulation (scratching your nose is committing holocaust)- is this really a legitimate claim and argument?

[–]arizona_d 0 points1 point ago

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sorry, I got this late, but yes, with the current abilities of cell manipulation they are able take an existing cell (say the adult cells) and "reprogram" its internal structure to become, a completely different type of cell and/or tissue, organ cells, ect. The Embryonic cells have that ability from the get go, making research far less expensive, and time consuming.

[–]arizona_d 0 points1 point ago

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[–]stp2007 3 points4 points ago

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First convince them that ignorance isn't a good thing.

[–]muppetshopboys[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I'm pretty sure their definition of ignorance is different than mine. If they even understand the concept.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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What do you think ignorance means? It's not that difficult a concept.

[–]ZeroBugBounce 1 point2 points ago

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Amongst the other arguments, don't forget to remind them that if they oppose destruction of human embryos for production of stem cells, then they also should oppose in vitro fertilization because it also leads to the destruction of embryos.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Some labs let you save them indefinitely.

[–]ZeroBugBounce 1 point2 points ago

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That only delays dealing with the issue and it also costs money.

[–]mystic_pooper 0 points1 point ago

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some ex-wives try to sue for ownership of them.

[–]slashr 1 point2 points ago

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Why would anyone think harmless research isn't a good thing?

[–]spif 1 point2 points ago

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What's your motivation to convince them?

[–]muppetshopboys[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I am motivated purely by my desire to see some minds changed. Particularly people I am fond of, however backwards their politics are.

[–]justcametosay- 1 point2 points ago

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Or you could just ignore your family's dumb opinions. Seriously, does it really matter? I've stopped paying attention to my relatives' idiocy for quite some time. Feels good man.

[–]bshayden 1 point2 points ago

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The Harris video is great. I also like to point out that many people feel that ESC research is wrong but IVF is fine. IVF, as practiced today, creates more embryos than will be used and thus condemns the embryos to destruction of one kind or another. Yet it's the scientists who want to use those already doomed embryos to learn about and prevent disease who catch the flak.

[–]snarfy 2 points3 points ago

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First, ask them why stem cells are a bad thing in the first place. Then repost their reasons and the rest of the internet will gladly rip them new assholes err explain the fallacies in their logic.

[–]arsington 0 points1 point ago

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Best answer yet.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]idioma 1 point2 points ago

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My Great Grandfather turned 100 years old last month. If someone is in their 80s but has few health problems, access to medical care and sanitary living conditions; they might live another twenty years. Why cling to religion in your latter years? Science is your best chance of extending and improving life.

[–]safe_work_for_naught 1 point2 points ago

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You have to see things from his perspective. Your grandfather believes that religion is the most important thing in his life.

Ah, excellent. Someone takes a nuanced approach.

You would feel that way too if you were in your final years and wanted to "hedge your bets".

...and then veers off into assumption.

And he will never see the benefits if stem cell research before he dies.

...and again.

Yes, it's always good approach an argument from your opponent's perspective, but you just set yourself up for strawmen by arbitrarily deciding these are planks of his opponent's platform.

[–]causticmango 0 points1 point ago

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Pascal's Wager raises it's ugly head yet again. Down, fell beast!

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]whiteychs -3 points-2 points ago

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Pascal's Wager is complete horse shit in any respect - regardless of age.

It makes a cogent argument if you consider atheism vs Christianity. However, that's not the real world. In the real world, there have been thousands of religions and there will be (unfortunately) many more.

So what, according to Pascal, was a no-lose situation is anything but.

The Grandfather clinging to religion is, I'd wager from anecdote, due to years and years of indoctrination and brain washing. My family is the same way. You can show them the logic, but you can't make them think.

[–]stlouisbrowns 1 point2 points ago

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Forget it. You're wasting your time.

[–]triviaqueen 1 point2 points ago

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My 14 year old large dog is now having trouble walking. The vet's x-rays showed advanced arthritis in a hip and the opposite knee. "No problem," he said, "we can just to stem cell treatment for her." For $1,800, they harvest abdominal fat, culture stem cells, and inject them into her knee and hip. So, if they can do that for my 14 year old dog, why can't they do that for my 80 year old mother?

[–]idioma 0 points1 point ago

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Because of this.

[–]dromni 0 points1 point ago

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What about the cure of AIDS?

[–]caprincrash 0 points1 point ago

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It has the potential to cure, Diabetes, Blindness, Paralysis and countless other disease and injuries that we might not even be aware of yet.

[–]honest_tea 0 points1 point ago

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Just a small example:

In 2007, researchers at University College London grew a type of zebrafish adult stem cell found in the eyes of fish and mammals that develops into neurons in the retina—the part of the eye that sends messages to the brain. These cells could be injected in the eye to treat diseases that damage retinal neurons—nearly every disease of the eye, including macular degeneration, glaucoma, and diabetes-related blindness. Retinal damage is responsible for most cases of sight loss. The researchers studied Müller glial cells in the eyes of humans aged from 18 months to 91 years and were able to develop them into all types of retinal neurons. They were able to grow them easily in the lab. The stem cells successfully migrated into diseased rats' retinas and took on the characteristics of the surrounding neurons. The team is working on the same approach in humans.

source

[–]causticmango 0 points1 point ago

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You know, it's a little like trying to convince someone that oxygen is good for them. If they don't already know it, you're not likely to convince them.

Your best bet it just to politely and firmly state that you think it's good and important. If they have any respect for you and your opinion, they'll wonder why you feel that way and investigate on their own.

Trying to argue the point on its logical merit with someone for whom it's likely a matter of principled belief is only going to cause them to dig in deeper.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Talking points:

  • Stem cell research does not necessarily involve human embryonic or even human tissue; mice are commonly used as a model organism.
  • Stem cells are fundamental element of all multicellular organisms at all life stages (embryonic to adult). We must understand them to understand growth, regeneration and diseases related to these.

Homework:

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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dude, can't fix stupid.

[–]NotAnAlt 0 points1 point ago

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I would respect your comment so much more if you sued a shift key.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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naa, i hate lawyers.

[–]NotAnAlt 0 points1 point ago

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This honestly made my morning way better. Thank you.

[–]smift -2 points-1 points ago

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Not your personal army.