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[–]TheReasonator 46 points47 points ago

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Everyone who jumped on the bandwagon telling them to wear polo shirts and khakis in order to be taken seriously needs to seriously go fuck themselves.

I think the people suggesting that the protesters dress less casually are the ones who support them and want them to succeed, so they're giving them advice. It's a tip. It could very much help. They're not trying to be dicks about it.

[–]Kalium 2 points3 points ago

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I dunno. I'm starting to read that position as "I'm uncomfortable with the notion that I'm not accomplishing anything, so I'm going to nag on some unimportant detail".

[–]TheReasonator 1 point2 points ago

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Why think that the advice is a result of some subconscious and rather unrelated anxiety about not being there themselves, instead of just advice that they think would help?

[–]crapshot 86 points87 points ago

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Millions of protesters didn't stop the Iraq war from happening.

[–]cockwaffle 46 points47 points ago

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Yes, I think people forget how utterly massive those protests were compared to OWS, with only a single unambiguous, well-understood demand. All that stupendous noise and it happened anyway.

Protests can be ignored.

[–]NinjaSupplyCompany 2 points3 points ago

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I know, i was marching on DC when i was in high school.

But maybe this is the start of something bigger.

[–]rhino369 7 points8 points ago

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Protesting is a fairly primitive form of democracy, but our form is better. The US population wanted to go to war with Iraq.

Tea Party protests were bigger than OWS protests. Does that mean we should implement Tea Party Demands.

[–]betamos 1 point2 points ago

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Time for a quote: "Democracy is the state of government where you say what you think, but do what you're told."

[–]rhino369 1 point2 points ago

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Every government is one where you "do what you're told."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Also, has anyone here actually been down there recently? I went today and it was terrible. The whole thing was some hippie arts festival with people dancing and spray painting posters that supported anarchy or the death of capitalism. They're fighting for a good cause in a very bad way.

"IMPEACH OBAMA HE LOVES BILLIONAIRES" "END THE FED" "EVEN GOD HATES THE GOVERNMENT"

Wtf?

[–]gbimmer 43 points44 points ago

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Making what happen?

[–]Steasy66 19 points20 points ago

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Shit, obviously.

[–]TheLolocaust 3 points4 points ago

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Ohhhhhh, so THAT is what they are doing...It all makes so much sense now

[–]JoCoLaRedux 1 point2 points ago*

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Well, any day now, they're going to make Mr. Wall Street emerge from his executive office, pull a white, silk hankie from the pocket of his Armani suit, wave it around in the air and announce that he's surrendered.

Then we'll all make $50 an hour, get free tuition and all the debt that everyone's accumulated across the globe will be forgiven.

Trust these people, they know what they're doing. They're the same ones from the anti-war movement, remember?

[–]gbimmer 1 point2 points ago

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If everyone made $50 an hour all businesses would just increase their prices to meet demand.

...of course the poor OWS folks don't realize this but...

[–]coolmoonman 1 point2 points ago

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Yep, the hippies aren't making anything happen. Meanwhile, the corporations are providing all of us with nearly every object we purchase, so which group is providing more for America?

[–]trollingconservative 15 points16 points ago

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For the most part, these dirty hippies don't know what the real problems are because they have vastly oversimplified views of how the economy works. There are real reasons to get upset, but a majority of these people have no idea what these reasons are. They need to have actionable demands. They need to ensure that commercial banking and proprietary trading are separated with a big fucking firewall. They need to make sure that employers aren't getting away with calling people contractors when they're obviously employees. They need to make sure that the health care system isn't so grossly inefficient that a minor surgery can bankrupt you. They need to make sure that there aren't schools out there gaming the student loan and grant system, loading kids down with debt and promising them the world just to give them something that barely qualifies as a degree and sends them into indentured servitude. These people are mad that they can't afford things like BMW's and iPhones because they got some shitty art degree or that their house "lost" $70,000 in value. They're mad that someone took the house they lived in when they borrowed all the money to buy it and didn't pay it back like they said they would. No one is starving, no one is living on the street. This is our bullshit "you're special" culture all grown up. This is just unfulfilled greed and entitlement. It's easy to blame your problems on someone else. The voices that need to get heard aren't going to get heard unless someone intelligent takes the reign of these people.

[–]CashRorschach 11 points12 points ago

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I didn't know Bill O'Reilly had a reddit account.

[–]KnightKrawler 4 points5 points ago

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Check username.

[–]tophattomato 4 points5 points ago

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You seem to have a good grasp of what 'they' need to do. So what are YOU doing about it, 'trollingconservative'?

[–]gbimmer 6 points7 points ago

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Nothing. Common sense can't help those people. They're too angry to listen to reasonable and concrete solutions. Instead they'd rather scream out "fuck the rich".

[–]Catafault 1 point2 points ago

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I agree. These people need a leader or some sort of unified voice besides "I'm mad at the system". If someone doesn't come forward I'm sure this protest will get hijacked by people with money and means to do it. Pay somebody in this crowd enough money I'm sure they could incite a riot.

[–]JessGold412 14 points15 points ago

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I live in NYC, and have seen the protesters. There are plenty of people in addition to these "hippies." College students, elderly men and women. People are only paying attention to the people that they can look down on and justify it to themselves. This is a diverse group of people, and while many of them fit into this "hippie" category, they do not make up the entirety of the group. And I agree, these people are actually trying to make a change, while we sit back and judge them from behind a computer screen.

[–]GnarltonBanks 74 points75 points ago

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Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose!

[–]scificriminal 7 points8 points ago

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This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.

[–]violetxrain 7 points8 points ago

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And the man didn't actually have any money of his own...

[–]I_have_BPD_sorry 24 points25 points ago

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yeah,,, well, you know, that's just like, uhhh, your opinion man.

[–]urmyheartBeatStopR 92 points93 points ago

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Why do people hate on hippies anyway?

I see em as spiritual, love spreading, pot smoking, and very chill people. Plus those VW Microbuses are awesome looking.

I don't believe I ever see them trying to pass law against our civil rights or hating on a minority group. Or any of those sort of hate things.

[–]Raul_Duke 37 points38 points ago

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i have long hair and a scraggly beard. i work only as much as i have to. i keep good friends. i eat good food. i use recreational drugs in moderation. i travel. i take care of my body. i treat others with respect. i don't take myself too seriously. and i try not to judge people before i know them. sometimes people call me a dirty hippie. they mean it derogatorily, but i always take it as a compliment. the more you know, the less you need

[–]KnightKrawler 2 points3 points ago

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the more you know, the less you need

Nice one :-)

[–]ghostchamber 4 points5 points ago

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I am thoroughly convinced if I was 18 in the 60s I would have been a hippie.

[–]dvdrdiscs 18 points19 points ago

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This is what I imagine a conversation between protestors and armchair protestor critics would go:

Armchair critics: Maybe if you hippies didn't dress like morons, I can support your cause and maybe even join your protest.

Hippies: Alright for the greater good, we'll agree to dress and act appropriately. Wanna join us and fight for your rights?

Armchair critics: Nah, never was interested anyways.

[–]gregsaw 4 points5 points ago

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Reminds me of this

Republicans: Maybe you if did what we wanted, we would vote for your stuff, Obama.

Obama: Here's some of those things you wanted. Will you compromise now?

Republicans: Nah, never was interested in compromise

[–]Scotthany 6 points7 points ago

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You do realize the people saying dress nice for the protests aren't withholding their support for those reasons right? They're trying to help you gain respectability in the way the media presents you and help more people support and (possibly more importantly) not immediately dismiss your cause.

[–]dvdrdiscs 3 points4 points ago

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I'm sure some have good intentions. And there are some that can't seem to restrain themselves from flinging personal insults. I doubt those were ever really serious about the cause other than to undermine it.

[–]AngelaMotorman 1 point2 points ago

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other than to undermine it.

The term for those is "concern trolls". Some do it for sport, some for spite, some for money. But they all waste time. Fortunately, this behavior becomes obvious for what it is pretty quickly.

[–]_the_sci_ENT_ist_ 22 points23 points ago

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I came here to say this - they always seem happy, even when shits bad -- and here they are (apparently) on the front lines protesting for the change all of these people want -- and they get bashed..

Seriously people - be a little more open minded - imagine how much the world would suck if everyone wore a suit.

[–]mcrbids 5 points6 points ago

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Why do you think it's just hippies?

Perhaps you missed the demonstration of hundreds of airline pilots in full dress and uniform, rank and file? What about the librarians, teachers, and other professionals showing in uniform?

Now up to 20,000 people in a day, this is a movement growing across the country. Even in my local, small town, an "Occupy Wall Street" chapter is organizing, with its first official meeting this afternoon.

This is happening everywhere, and it's bigger than the tea party without the support of the media!

[–]PDK01 10 points11 points ago

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They are also some of the most passive-aggressive people in the world. They have no problem calling people out for choices that don't jibe with their philosophies. Those philosophies are often very poorly thought out. They are masters of hyperbolic victimhood. There is a lot not to like.

[–]youjettisonme 22 points23 points ago

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"They are masters of hyperbolic victimhood. There is a lot not to like."

Sounds like a way you could describe almost any group at all provided you disagreed with them or else they just offended your general sensibilities.

[–]PDK01 1 point2 points ago

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I'd agree with you on the second sentence, but the first I'd disagree with: hippies (and the Tea Party) are branded as an oppressed underclass, so you see a lot of "chicken little" responses to events. Things are never just "bad ideas" the way they are in moderate circles, it's always "fascism" or "tyranny" or what have you. This rhetoric is very polarizing.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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yeah. pacific northwest here, in a town known for it's historic hippie population.

i'm down with peace and love. i'm not down with the passive aggression and posturing that you learn that they're actually about. it's like the anarcho-punk scene - it's a great fashion statement but then you realize that none of them give a shit abou the ideals they espouse because then they wouldn't be in the ultra-hip minority.

[–]FadedReality 15 points16 points ago

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For real, not to mention they're completely oblivious to the fact that their entire movement was hijacked by corporations... wait, we're talking about the Tea Party right? I was skimming.

[–]skylaro 7 points8 points ago

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yes, because every hippy is that one person who pissed you personally off, therefore they should all be grouped together into one passive-aggressive, judgmental blob of dirty smelly awful. not that you aren't, as you type those words, being guilty of pretty much everything you accuse of. any general life-style popular enough to be jumbled into a sub-culture is made up of a mass of individuals. some of them are assholes. some are not. generalizations like yours are completely ineffective, not to mention a waste of time. also, yeah, like >youjettisonme's response, you could accuse any group you dislike of all these things.

[–]IAmNotAPerson6 4 points5 points ago

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I do agree with some of their ideas. Although, every single hippy I've ever met has smelled repugnant; and spoken with the fluency and mood of Eeyore, and grammar skills of a baby owl.

[–]jonesin4info 6 points7 points ago

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Many of us with hippie roots have decided to do something with our lives instead of following phish around and taking LSD every other day and show up at protests across the country from my residence. While that might be fun, I'd rather get into a position of current societal worth and work from there, rather than as a total outsider.

[–]IAmNotAPerson6 1 point2 points ago

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That, my good sir, is what I believe that hippies should do. Applause and sexual favors for you.

[–]joedirt123 9 points10 points ago

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Because reddit on the whole is more conservative than you think. Honestly they didn't like the OWS protestors from day one, not because they were hippies but because they fought for social change. Reddit generally speaking is anti protest in the US (they are fine with protests outside the US). The basic cry here is "they are inconveniencing the public so they should be beaten"

[–]ztfreeman 17 points18 points ago*

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I think Reddit isn't filled with any paticular political group, but the one unifying principal most posters have is contraryism.

Check any post about anything, from the OWS movement to cat pictures, and you'll find the top posts are almost always contrary to the OP's post.

I read once someone who noticed this and saw it as a good thing. That this stimulates discussion. I'm not honestly sure of this. I have noticed a repeating formula used in these contrarian comments thats honestly put me off of the Reddit community as of late.

Basically, if you really want to karma whore, what you need to do is take direct opposition to the OP, but frame your counter argument with the false identity of someone who is and expert or in the know, and take that air of legitimacy and use it to poke holes in the OPs boat.

Since the contrarian has started out with a well worded post that wasn't overtly inflammatory, this brings a ton of upvotes, and usually a counterpost from the newly frammed other side of the debate. This is where discourse falls apart. This counterpost is usually filled with all kinds of information defending against the contrarian's attack, sometimes even cited sources.

What follows is pure drivel. This posters is usually flodded with posts, and even downvotes because despite the contrarian having no proven authority over the subject, Reddit sides with him, even if this side of the debate contributes no other arguments to the discussion. Whole new threads will be posted, rage comics created, purely for the karma grab.

And the contrarian? He was speaking out of his ass. He had bearly read the OPs post, lied about his credentials, and contributes nothing to substantially back up his own argument.

But it is too late. The OPs idea has beend trampled upon by an army of assholes who contributed nothing to the discussion, carrying the momentum with them for little more than fleeting smug superiority, and karma points.

Edit: You'll have to excuse any errors in the above post, typed all that out on my phone via touchscreen, and lord knows what it's done to this with the word substitutions.

[–]reykaveyk 25 points26 points ago

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What reddit are you reading?

"they are inconveniencing the public so they should be beaten"

is quite rediculous

[–]Spreadsheet 4 points5 points ago

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The comment reddit. There's two reddits: the headlines and the comments. And according to my own theory of reddit, the front pages reflect what people call the "hivemind" (superficial consensus). The comments represent a totally different set of people, and often disagrees vastly with the front pages.

So yes while many people enjoy making fun of the fact that some perceptions of reddit are inaccurate because they don't depict the "hivemind" that we all so like making fun of, the perceptions really aren't that inaccurate. I've noticed a definite presence of an anti-hippy sentiment and anti-OWS sentiment, which, isn't only "a different opinion"; it's more severe than that.

[–]reykaveyk 4 points5 points ago

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It might just be might selectively skimming but I'm pretty sure I saw more comments related to argument of the media being wrong for attributing the whole protest as youthful hippies. There have been a lot of 'these are actually working people' comments as well, you know.

[–]theungod 108 points109 points ago

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When you've got less to lose it's easier to protest.

[–]TaxExempt 66 points67 points ago

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Freedom's just another word, for "nothin' left to lose".

[–]thadood2 7 points8 points ago

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And nothin', that's all that Bobby left me.

[–]discord23 3 points4 points ago

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But feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues...

[–]icanhazpoop 2 points3 points ago

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feelin good was good enough for me. good enough for me and bobby mcgee

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Pnutmaster 19 points20 points ago

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Or start calling this country a "plutocracy", lest we forget what "democracy" entails.

[–]discord23 9 points10 points ago*

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...but we are not a democracy, we are a republic.

edit: surprised this was upvoted.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]raouldukeesq 4 points5 points ago

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Funny, that's what the hippie Steve Jobs said.

[–]justanothercommenter 10 points11 points ago

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Yeah, no kidding. We're not all fucking smoking dope down here, although a lot of them are. Some of us have computers and are posting from the protest.

We are the 1%.

Re-elect our boy! We paid good goddamn money for him.

[–]RelativeQuote 1 point2 points ago

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“You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power - he's free again.”

[–]novaunhinged 3 points4 points ago

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"making shit happen"

Wait did something happen?

[–]ifyourheadexplodes 5 points6 points ago

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What exactly have "hippies" ever accomplished in this country?

[–]soulcakeduck 19 points20 points ago

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What exactly are they making happen? This is not adversarial, as I am glad for their efforts, but I (like many) think the effectiveness is diminished by the lack of a common goal.

I think protests were influential in ending the Vietnam War, and in the Civil Rights movement. I think these protests will successfully bring a lot of people together, and we already see influential unions voicing support for OWS. But will it have a legislative impact?

I suspect that the main impact will be an electoral one: we're motivating a large voting bloc, but I don't think we're having a big influence on our legislators (yet). But if that means we're just stuck voting everyone out of office, then we're about as effective as the Tea Party (which is not insignificant, but): I don't think the newly elected legislators will be different enough to get the changes most are hoping for.

[–]tob_krean 38 points39 points ago

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Credit should be given to everyone who is there, but I agree with your sentiment about prejudice.

The movement will be more effective, like it was in Egypt, when you have people of all walks of life there. So its not that hippies should wear suits, its that hippies, and blue collar workers, and people in suits who are in the 99% can and should stand together to increase an equitable society.

With that said, by all means give them credit for getting the ball rolling.

People may disagree with the message or the tactics, but those who are taking potshots at either the OWS protesters or the 99% posters are anonymous cowards.

[–]spiralpattern 77 points78 points ago

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That's the thing, man. I live in New York. I've been down on Wall Street over the past few days. Let me tell you who I've seen.

  • Senior citizens (one woman in particular had a sign that said, "I'm 87 and mad as hell!")

  • Whole families, including children and young teenagers.

  • People of every race and religion.

  • Union workers, MTA workers and firefighters, ranging in age from about 20 to 60.

  • And, yes the white 20-somethings whom the media would like to have you believe represents the entire movement.

There are ALL kinds of people on Wall Street like there. That this is a movement made up entirely of entitled white kids is an enormous, media-perpetrated misconception. It is a large and varied group.

[–]NinjaSupplyCompany 22 points23 points ago

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also, THANK YOU for being down there. Keep up the good fight.

[–]tob_krean 9 points10 points ago

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Excellent, good to hear. That media-perpetrated misconception is something that needs to be battled whenever it comes up to gain the most success.

[–]NinjaSupplyCompany 11 points12 points ago

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This here post might need it's own thread my friend.

[–]tcb4u 1 point2 points ago

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In the 60's i used to hitchhike and now I'm in my 60's and want so much to hitch to NYC since I'm on SSD I am not able....no cost of living for 3 yrs. while the bankers roll in $. makes me sick!

[–]kedziematthews 41 points42 points ago

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so what is it they're actually doing? what is tangibly being done? 'cause so far all i'm seeing is another protest that will be forgotten in a year.

[–]Mexagon 23 points24 points ago

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SHHH A REVOLUTION IS HAPPENING CANT YOU SEE IT THE CORPORATIONS ARE SCARED MAN EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE PERFECT

[–]literroy 5 points6 points ago

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They're starting a conversation in the media that wasn't there before. They're showing that the Tea Party isn't the only group who's mad and politically engaged. They're standing up for something they believe in, even if they're not sure of all the details yet.

Not everything needs to be tangible in order to be useful.

[–]emma-dilemma 1 point2 points ago

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This. This times a million.

[–]for4saken 1 point2 points ago

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People acting politically, that is the most important change that can be accomplished, and it is enough.

[–]Wadka 8 points9 points ago

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You hit the nail on the head, my boy. Not only are they not doing shit, the shit they say they want to do WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Complete forgiveness of all debt? Congratulations, you just wrecked the entire global economy in an instant.

[–]stiggz 0 points1 point ago

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This. But no one cares, they all think that this is going to change something for some reason. It's only gonna get worse people. We need an all out rebellion to change anything. Overthrow the government, just have a plan in place to make a better 'system' once you've done it.

[–]GOPWN 14 points15 points ago

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I'm dying to know how they are "making shit happen".

[–]hobosong 1 point2 points ago

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Well they did influence me to take the verrazano instead of a more direct route via the battery tunnel today.

[–]rubypeak 64 points65 points ago

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These people are far more likely to shake things up and ultimately cause a positive change than our hopeless representatives in their five-hundred dollar suits are. Our govt. no longer has the "concent of the governed," with an 18% approval. Protestors in the streets is the logical outgrowth of the last decade, but it's logical to assume that at no point are the protestors likely to smell good.

[–]rokstar66 45 points46 points ago

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five-hundred dollar suits

Upvote, but they cost a lot more than that.

[–]rivalthecreator 96 points97 points ago

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You're asking the guy in the $6,500 suit to protest? COME ON!

[–]-Osiris- 6 points7 points ago

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I laugh out loud every time I see someone bring up this joke...

[–]GoogleitoErgoSum 5 points6 points ago

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Not to mention the $800 boots he just got shined.

[–]NoNeedForAName 3 points4 points ago

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These people are far more likely to shake things up...than our hopeless representatives

Well, I think that's kind of the whole point--the reps aren't doing anything. What OP is saying is that guys like you and me aren't doing anything, not that the government isn't doing anything. At this point, the latter is a given.

[–]Jakitron 3 points4 points ago

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I'm a "dirty hippie", and I quite fancy rose-scented perfumes. So.

[–]BringYourVoice 9 points10 points ago

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Every time you say "I'm powerless. Nothing I do matters." You lose before you even started.

[–]CashRorschach 2 points3 points ago

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Gee, it sure is sad that everyone with the answers to everything is at home commenting on the internet.

[–]manyverse 20 points21 points ago

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Thanks, dirty hippies!

[–]2fingers 6 points7 points ago

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As one of the dirty hippies actually sleeping in a park (not NYC but another modest 5 day old occupation), there's really no need to tell anyone to fuck off. From what I saw people were just trying make helpful suggestions about improving public perception. If someone wants to put on a suit so the people that come by and have no idea what we're doing there will stop asking if we're homeless, that's fine. If not, no big deal either. It seems to me that you're upset about the negative perception of hippy-types, but channeling that anger at those who suggested ways to get around that negative perception.

[–]Formuler261 5 points6 points ago

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The thing is that these people should be worried about their image and the image that they are presenting to the media. During the Civil Rights movement, one of King's biggest parts of his protest was 'peaceful' protest. Why? What was the point of peaceful protest? It was all about media manipulation. People at home who aren't really connected to or worrying about the civil rights movement saw on the news men, women, and children being brutalized by the cops, but King made it clear to his protesters that was to be no aggression from them towards the cops. This makes the people think at home, " really, that's whats happening? I really guess things are a bit out of hand.

Yes, I will credit these individuals for rallying, and trying to take action. I really wish I could be occupying Wall Street myself. You just need to realize that image is very powerful.

[–]Wadka 8 points9 points ago

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No I don't, because nothing is actually happening.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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Voice of reason? Are you fucking kidding me? Did you read that shitty thing they called a "declaration"?

[–]bonedbynature 2 points3 points ago

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I wouldn't say OWS is "making things happen". What exactly are they expecting to get done? I agree with them as much as most of you do regarding the injustice of the division of wealth in the US. But a list of demands including "free college education" and trillions of dollars of increased spending on things like "ecological restoration", how is anyone with the slightest idea of the state of our economy going to take them seriously? Changes like this would take years, decades, to realize. Before any sort of ecological or social action can take place, we need to decrease our dependence on foreign products and services (which is the part of OWS I whole heartedly agree with) and get ourselves out of debt. Sorry active protestors, but if you're looking for immediate change you're going to be on the streets for a long ass time.

[–]Fookananer 2 points3 points ago

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it's about to get real cold in NY... I cant imagine them lasting much longer.

[–]Halbruder 2 points3 points ago

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It doesn't matter what you TRY to do. It's all about results. None so far.

[–]fswizz 2 points3 points ago

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So on the frontpage we have one story bitching about how the mainstream media isn't taking OWS seriously because of how some participants dress and look, and then this about how anyone that says the protesters should look respectable should "go fuck themselves."

This is about the level of consistency I've come to expect from this movement.

[–]j1zzfist 2 points3 points ago

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I would cast my vote on this if it weren't at 420 karma

[–]BulbousAlsoTapered 2 points3 points ago

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Not only will the revolution not be televized, it will also not have a dress code.

The current crop of demonstrators will get pepper-sprayed and get their heads beaten in, eventually the "respectable" people in suits will come in, water down the principles, and take credit. Very little will change.

If you don't like that scenario, get out in the streets yourself.

[–]affluenza 2 points3 points ago

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No no no no. Don't you see. If you want to make the world a better place you absolutely MUST wear POLOS and KHAKIS!!!

/sarcasm

[–]truesound 2 points3 points ago

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I concur. Almost completely. The part where we disagree is this; I am already on your side. So, it's not me that you need to impress. It is those who would participate if they thought the movement was taking itself at least seriously enough to put up a more "professional" front. Not "professional" by my definition, but by theirs.

[–]tEnPoInTs 2 points3 points ago

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Speak for yourself. I have a full time software engineering job, but I went to my local Occupy movement (Baltimore) two nights ago, and participated in the general assemblies, and I am helping them out with some things, and this weekend I'm going down to DC to check out the new one and see how I can help there when not working.

[–]edisei 2 points3 points ago

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Let's also break down what we're calling "dirty hippies." Homeless folk, crust punks, peaceniks, hipsters, unionizers, et al. could all fall under the category. What this is really saying is "Your lifestyle is not acceptable, change it so that we can all achieve these goals." Fuck your goals as they are not my goals, and OWS is not about having a unified goal of purpose. The outside media doesn't give a shit about OWS anyway, and people aren't being taken seriously yet; so why the fuck would you give it up?

This isn't about taking concessions and trying to be "effective." An occupation (as we're sadly calling it but w/e) is about transforming the use and purpose of a space.

[–]joanjourne142 2 points3 points ago

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OWS, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I turned 64 a week ago. I protested the Vietnam war in the 60's . . dear god, was it really 50 years ago? Change is slow, but don't give up! Those people who say the OWS protestors don't know why they're there and have no clear demands, are exposing their own ignorance. The whole world knows why they're there! Do some research, for pity's sake! These are intelligent, articulate, serious people. These are our young people, fighting greed & war & brutality, and I am so proud of them! Thank you Wisconsin, thank you Egypt, thank you OWS, from an old "dirty hippie". OWS, you've make me proud to be an American again.

[–]mayorHB 23 points24 points ago

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never mind that the list of demands is laughably stupid?

[–]capnjack78 14 points15 points ago

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What 'demands'? It's just a list of unrelated gripes!

[–]Joshfromhb 6 points7 points ago

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Aimed at corporations who don't have the power to change laws which would change things.... This is stupid, they need to move from Wall Street, to signing petitions and voting.

[–]antibubbles 3 points4 points ago

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gripes? like, "Oh, my jacket doesn't fit properly?" ... no. i think "took our houses" or the ecosystem collapsing is more than a "gripe"

[–]redblack11 5 points6 points ago

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think "we didn't pay our mortgages and forfeited the rights to our property."

FTFY

[–]capnjack78 2 points3 points ago

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Let's not debate semantics. They are not clear demands, which Redditors and the media have been asking for weeks.

[–]redworm 10 points11 points ago

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They're not making shit happen. Go fuck yourself for suggesting that a valid piece of advice is a reason for hostility. Dirty hippies are not the voice of reason, they're just a loud annoyance. People who protest with logic, reason and who can connect with the public are the ones that make shit happen. Dirty hippies just bitch and moan about shit they don't understand then complain when they don't get their way. Dirty hippies deserve a grand total of zero of my respect.

Start organizing a real protest instead of retarded drum circles. They accomplish nothing.

[–]Weebs 1 point2 points ago

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Dirty hippies deserve respect, they are at least good people who know the value of peace and tolerance. They also actually care about something other than just themselves

[–]CndConnection 34 points35 points ago

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"he bandwagon telling them to wear polo shirts and khakis in order to be taken seriously needs to seriously go fuck themselves."

No OP, fuck YOU

The black civil rights movement won one of the most important social movement battles of all time wearing their sunday best.

[–]philasurfer 16 points17 points ago

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Fuck you, until you head down there in your suit, you can't say shit about their dress. At least they are there! What the fuck are you doing?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

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Apparently showing up is 99% of success...

[–]mobsta 14 points15 points ago*

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So everyone who goes there is instantly helping? If I go there naked, holding up a sign which says "FREE SEX", screaming "BOO WALLSTREET, BOO", I'm still helping? I think that will only help to build a negative image of the whole protest. If you dress like this, don't expect to be taken seriously.

I get what you're saying, but the effectiveness of the protest depends on several factors, not just 'being there'.

Edit: added picture

Edit 2: Dressing like this makes people take you, and thus the protest more serious, don't you think?

[–]KeeperOfThePeace 11 points12 points ago

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The notion that wearing nice clothes helped the civil rights movement does not imply that people who wear something other than nice clothes will not or should not be taken seriously.

Your logic is poor:

P--> Q;

not P;

Therefore, not Q.

It doesn't work like that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I don't think most people are debating should not, they're debating would not. I just think that this is not something that should be an issue for these protests, just dress a little more professionally so the issue stays focused on what it should be. Really don't need a lot of face time and publicity from the protests diverted to society accepting how everyone dresses.

[–]KeeperOfThePeace 1 point2 points ago

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Big media has made it its objective to cast these protests in a negative light. You will never get every single protestor to conform to a narrow code of dress. The media will simply shift its cameras to the people who don't conform. I would rather see as many protesters out there being encouraged to dress however they want, rather than have them shy away because they either don't have the clothes to spare or disagree. And before anyone says "oh anyone can afford a polo and slacks": no, not everyone can. Those who can't are the bottom-most part of the 99%, who anyone pushing for a stricter dress code for would do well not to forget.

Uniformity in style of dress just will just create division between those who adhere to it and those who don't. The overall message is that 99% is 99%: it doesn't matter what you wear, what color you are, where you're from, whether you're old or young; the results of class warfare transcend these differences. This movement is about unity, not creating markers for why some protesters are better than others.

[–]rjung 11 points12 points ago

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THIS.

There is no reason why you can't present a message demanding social change while looking respectable and credible. Looking like a lunatic just makes it easier for the people on the sidelines to dismiss you.

[–]ansible47 9 points10 points ago

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Turns out demanding social change alone is enough to make most people dismiss you.

The black civil rights movement won one of the most important social movement battles of all time wearing their sunday best.

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the fact that millions were protesting.

"What's that, Officer? A million men, you say? What are they wearing?"

"Looks like shorts and t-shirts, sir. They may or may not have washed their hair."

"[Yao Ming Face]"

[–]Revived 4 points5 points ago

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Some of these people at OWS can't afford a suit, some have no jobs, some were laid off. Some used to attend a church before they got laid off and couldnt even afford to live in a home let alone wash their clothes.

The ease for most of the black people to get suits back then was due to economic balance; their issue was race. Here; there is economic disbalance, and what you see is not a matter of race but a matter of yearning for the chance to be heard, cause we can't even make a proper appearance, therefor prolonged exposure to their messages is the only way to be heard.

[–]CndConnection 1 point2 points ago*

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Who the fuck ever said anything about a suit?

Clean button shirt, black dress pants and a belt will suffice.

edit

Also another thing came to mind, most protests get infested with piece of shit anarchists who cause trouble and get arrested, but also do a lot to discredit movements in the media. It would become apparent who is there to cause shit, and who is there to support when all the adherents and constituents are wearing nice clothes when all the anarchists are wearing black and scarves around their faces spouting profanity.

[–]ShamAbram 6 points7 points ago

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What are they making shit happen? They're knitting sleeping bags in order to protest...capitalism? That's the hippiest thing I've ever heard.

[–]hellointernet81 8 points9 points ago

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Making what happen.

[–]elh0mbre 20 points21 points ago

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Did I miss something?

What shit did they make happen, other than wasting police resources?

[–]snarc 9 points10 points ago

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They've achieved A Larger Crowd. They've caught on to the cultural zeitgeist and got their Warhol allocation of fame.

But more seriously, long term, they might well be helping to politicise a fair proportion of the youth population. The nineties generation was apathetic as hell; there seems to be a fashion for political activism at present, which, though currently manifested in the form of rather silly student demonstrations against everything and for nothing in particular, could lead to a more aware and more engaged population in the future as they grow up. If the public become more alert to government bullshit in the long term, that's got to be a good thing.

[–]elh0mbre 10 points11 points ago

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I'm with you that it might help politicize a generation, but I'm concerned by a lot of the nonsense I hear them spewing and that we're just going to have a bunch more voters who don't know what they're talking about.

[–]ex_ample 3 points4 points ago

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Polling shows that they have higher approval ratings then congress or the Tea Party.

[–]Jmonkeh 18 points19 points ago

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No offense, but so does Jersey Shore.

[–]snarc 5 points6 points ago

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That's not much of a recommendation, though, is it? We recently learned that the Tea Party are the most hated group in America. Exceeding their approval rating isn't exactly aiming for a high goal.

[–]suntgiger 1 point2 points ago

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An Entire Elephant

[–]ProfessorMystery 2 points3 points ago

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They're the reason what is happening?

[–]jitterbean 4 points5 points ago

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"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits, the rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They are not fond of rules, and have no respect for the status-quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify them or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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Has anyone seen the episode of South Park called "Die Hippie, Die!"?

[–]microcontrolled 3 points4 points ago

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What have they done exactly? Help me to understand just what Occupy Wall Street has accomplished other than getting some media attention.

[–]AcademicLions 9 points10 points ago

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How asinine. The people who are saying they should try to be more professional aren't saying that because they don't think they look good. They're saying that because it's more pragmatic than running around like dumbasses. If there's one thing you need to know about the majority of the American populace, it's that they do not like what they do not understand. And I can assure they do not understand alternative-looking people. If you're so immature you don't think it makes sense to sacrifice an individualist appearance for political change, then you've no place to spout such affected bullshit.

[–]crackyJsquirrel 22 points23 points ago

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I hate people who think the worth of a person is in how nice his/her suit looks. Wear the uniform or you are not valid? Fuck off.

[–]mimunto 26 points27 points ago*

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You have misunderstood it. Public opinion tends to favor irrational emotions a lot more than logical arguments. Whatever you say is irrelevant, if people dismiss you before they even hear you speak. This is not me saying anything about your worth as a human being. Just what is likely to happen.

EDIT: A che guevara t-shirt, dreadlocks and a fuck capitalism sign isn't likely to work, but this doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to go all suit.

EDIT 2: However, never let the wrapping become more important than the content (incl. the principles). While it may initially produce better results, you will end up losing your passion and begin to sell out. It is a fine line.

[–]vsal 5 points6 points ago

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This. It's about giving your opinion a chance to be heard.

It comes down to this: what do you find more important, your ideology being heard or wearing your desired clothes? There's no hate for people wanting to wear what they want, it's just there's a true desire to see their legitimate concerns taken seriously.

There's a bit of a tradeoff IMO.

[–]TheCavis 1 point2 points ago

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Public opinion tends to favor irrational emotions a lot more than logical arguments.

You need to go one step further to fully explain everything.

People are more likely to agree with people they identify with. Part of that "sameness" comes from initial impressions. If I see someone in business casual, I assume they're more or less like me. If I see someone in a Che T-shirt and ripped jeans, I assume they're a college student and, by extension, less like me.

Young people already agree with the OWSers on the issues and the general undifferentiated anger, so they don't need to see someone dressed in "college casual" in order to listen to the positions.

The undecided depressed suburbanite, though, sees the Che shirt and immediately thinks "stupid kids". They need to see someone more like themselves talking about the issues so they can then internalize the topic and see how the OWS's issues affect them. Moreover, they need to see someone like them getting arrested to see how out of control things are getting there. 1,000 kids in ratty T shirts getting arrested won't have nearly as much impact as one or two button-down types.

TL;DR - People say don't judge a book by its cover but do it all the time anyway.

[–]dogsent 1 point2 points ago

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The guy in Tunisia was street vendor by the name of Mohamed Bouazizi, who burned himself to death to protest harassment by authorities. He didn't look like a "dirty hippie". He just looked like a regular guy. That's why so many people could empathize with him. Unemployment among young workers was over 30%. Mohamed Bouazizi was trying to earn a living as a street vendor, like far too many others. People could related to him and his despair. That's what sparked massive revolts.

[–]swander42 1 point2 points ago

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You gotta be comfortable when stickin it to the man. Plus I would imagine once you have slept a few nights in a park it doesn't really matter what you are wearing.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Where can we find information on any effect OWS has had on wall street or government policy? Google isn't helping me for some reason.

[–]Korr123 1 point2 points ago

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It's not their appearance that makes the protest seem less credible(not that is actually less credible because of that.) It's the fact that the hippies come in and blab retarded shit to the media about how capitalism is bad and then have nothing intelligent to say to back it up, and then the media manipulates those clips as much as they can to make it look even worse than it already was (which was already terribad.) Also, I don't get the point of nudity, not that I'm complaining, but it does kind of distort the message overall.

[–]Lears_Fool 1 point2 points ago

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If history is our guide, in twenty years from now these dirty hippies will be executives in the corporations they once protested. Then it will be their turn to say, "I got mine. Fuck you! Every crumb for himself."

[–]TacoGhost 1 point2 points ago

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I'll stop telling them to wear nicer clothes when they stop bitching about not being taken seriously based on their looks.

[–]Uncle_Bill[!] 1 point2 points ago

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What exactly have they accomplished? I don't seem remember any laws changed..

They are getting attention, like any attenion whore

[–]TheLoveTin 1 point2 points ago

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When something 'happens' I will give them credit.

[–]maggiemae1 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah mannn! gettin high all day and listening to music and saving the world and stuff... righteouss

[–]Dark1000 1 point2 points ago

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There aren't really many "hippies" left anymore. Hipsters is the dominant species nowadays. As far as I can tell, the hippie contingent at OWS is not particularly significant. You're buying into the narrative that they are just a bunch of hippies when the vast majority of people protesting aren't hippies at all.

[–]koshkakartoshka 1 point2 points ago

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The problem with dirty hippies is that they protest for the sake of protesting as often as not, so by the time an important issue rolls around nobody fucking cares.

[–]The_sinking_anus 1 point2 points ago

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Upvote for sense.

[–]tombrokejaw 1 point2 points ago

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If I remember correctly, the words "be the change you want to see in the world" were spoken by none other than Gandhi himself. This applies to all those who wish to see change in the fashion sense of the 'Modern American dissenter'.

[–]mazurtommy 1 point2 points ago

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complaining about the dirty hippies..... is it the 90's again?!?!!?

[–]youdontsaythat 1 point2 points ago

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People giving such a shit about appearances over substance is what got us in this hellacious mess of debt man!

[–]kynetik 1 point2 points ago

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I'm extremely grateful for all the dirty hippies dedicating themselves to the protests. As a college kid in Wisconsin with a job and rent to pay, I couldn't break away from my obligations and stand up for what I believe is a monumentally important cause, but I'm glad that there are people my age who aren't bound by conventional responsibility, people who can pick up and move to represent a largely ignored demographic of politically frustrated young people.

The protests might not be efficacious, but they're as good as we can give in these terrifying times without lowering ourselves to the despicable level of violence of our opponents.

[–]decorral 3 points4 points ago

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Have you ever seen pictures of the Freedom Riders? They all wore suits and looked way more badass than any chump with dreads and a fucking poncho. On top of that, there is the irrefutable fact that Freedom Riders accomplished more (and by more I mean fucking Civil Rights in case someone isn't sure what I'm referring to) than any hippy in the 60's ever did. So yeah, looking clean has its benefits.

[–]enjoyablycrazy 1 point2 points ago

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it's not hippies anymore. it's fedora wearing neckbeards who have no idea what they're even doing there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Finally someone tell the haters on reddit how it is. Some people spend thier clothes money on things made of hemp because its fuckin durable and last a long fuckin time. ou shouldn't judge people how they dress. If anything the more you spend the more you waste.

[–]ross25m 7 points8 points ago

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"These "dirty hippies" deserve more respect for having the courage to do what others are too scared to do"

i am not scared nor do i lack the courage i just work a full time job selling insurance bartend at night and work another part time job on the weekends lets get real there is work out there lets roll up our sleeves america

[–]AnnArchist 11 points12 points ago

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well they haven't caused anything to happen yet.

[–]stewe_nli 24 points25 points ago

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Are you serious? They've started a national dialogue about the elephant in the room that's been growing for the past 40 years.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points ago

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What dialogue??? Which legislators are talking to them about seriously changing things? Which referendums and initiatives have they accomplished? What REAL CHANGES have been made? NOTHING!

I am for the movement, but to argue it's success at this point isn't merited. Wait for real change and then look back and say, yeah, they/we did that. Until then, support and join. To say there were accomplishments is akin to saying, "they can go home now, everything's better."

[–]havenotthefoggiest 1 point2 points ago

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[–]frickindeal 2 points3 points ago

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They are being discussed on major mainstream news. That's an accomplishment in itself, and serves to spread the word.

Patience is key. The current situation didn't become the way it is overnight, and neither changing it.

[–]literroy 2 points3 points ago

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The thing's been going on less than a month, and you're complaining that they haven't achieved any legislative accomplishments yet? And somehow, they're the naive ones?

[–]masedizzle 3 points4 points ago

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Last time I checked the dirty hippies didn't stop the escalation of the Vietnam War, or the Iraq war just a scant 10 years ago. I'm sitting behind a computer because well.... I'm at work. I'm fortunate enough to have a job. Easy to protest when you don't have to worry about losing a job you don't have.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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The reason that what is happening? No change is being enacted. They don't have jobs and they want to feel important. So far they have done no one any favours, other than costing NYC plenty of money. Give any example of "dirty hippies" accomplishing something outside of getting attention for themselves.

[–]ex_ample 1 point2 points ago

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I always thought the "Khakis and Polos" idea was completely ridiculous. A suit is a good idea. Wearing a suit makes you look serious. Wearing Khakis and Polos just makes you look like a douchebag.

[–]true_grit 2 points3 points ago

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What? Are you implying my precious upvotes aren't changing anything out there?!

Seriously It has been mentioned before: Please suit up! People will take you more seriously, if you are clothed like your going on a date/job interview/family celebration. You shouldn't change your unique looks but it is important to observers that they can identify with you - already on the first glance!

[–]Egaugnal 4 points5 points ago

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Made a post bout this a bit ago, buried as expected, glad you're getting some upvotes. I seriously do not understand all the hate and criticism toward the people who started and help maintain the movement. How can you respect and support a protest while at the same time insulting the protesters for not adhering to your concept of decency or professionalism or whatever?

Must feel good to be sitting at your computer in khakis and a polo. I am guessing a fair amount of the hostility also comes from the tacky teeshirt sweaty hoody ill fitting cargo pants crowd.

[–]IceRay42 11 points12 points ago

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If there is hate it is misdirected, but criticism is fair. You can pretend to be high-minded all you like and say "Appearance doesn't matter" but as a member of the human race it does. To the people in charge, it does. MLK led thousands of protesters all dressed in their Sunday best because he understood that one simple idea.

I don't think it's fair that opinions are disregarded simply based on the way someone is dressed, especially as a guy that sports three tattoos and loves internet joke t-shirts to death. That being said however, I have to set aside that I cannot always have my cake and eat it too. Sometimes, I have to go to work, and dress nicely, and behave seriously, so that I can support my life outside of work.

The criticism is that appearance matters to the ones in charge, and that it's easiest to subvert the system from the inside. You're already telling the opposition something that makes them angry ("You're financially fucking us and we won't stand for it"), why would you WANT to give them any extra ammunition to work with?

If this movement is really that important, set aside your qualms on personal appearance. Like it or not, the best chance to win is to at least feign playing their game, long enough to make the changes that need to be made. Once that's finished, maybe then you can start fighting a new battle, but fighting two at once is a formula for guaranteed failure on both fronts.

[–]orourkebr 3 points4 points ago

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They haven't made any shit happen, sorry.

[–]someish 4 points5 points ago

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What exactly are they making happen?

[–]inchesfromdead 3 points4 points ago

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I don't see anything happening to be perfectly honest. This resembles an ill formed facebook status update.

[–]alfx 2 points3 points ago

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Making what shit happen? Most people I have talked to IRL think of them as a joke and don't even know what they are trying to accomplish. Get rid of the drum circle shit and white person dread locks and maybe people will pay attention.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]MagCynic 2 points3 points ago

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What exactly are their plans for "making shit happen"? How does walking up and done a sidewalk in New York City cause Congress to craft and pass a bill that satisfies whatever it is they are protesting for?

[–]Tinkboy98 -1 points0 points ago

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what, exactly, have they caused to happen?

Nothing yet.

[–]kikopr33 18 points19 points ago

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They have caused awareness of the current f-ked up situation in America. People like you keep trying to place doubt on what they are doing but unfortunately, your kind has lost in framing that picture! The only way to make change happen in America is if Americans protest. For civil rights, Americans protested! To end the Vietnam war, American protested! And now we protest Again! Protestors fight for our Freedoms! Fortunately, the Hippies have always been the first one to stand up to our government for the better of all Americans. Now many people are sitting behind a computer placing judgment on Hippies for how they look, dress and act during a protest. WTF Hippies rule and f-ck those people that place judgments on others for how they look! End of rant!

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato”

[–]thatthatguy 8 points9 points ago

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Now now, don't be too hard on him. He's just pointing out that laws and policies and all the stuff they are protesting against haven't changed. Note that he said "nothing yet" implying that there is still the opportunity to things to change. It isn't criticism, just saying that it's too soon to throw the victory party.

[–]Leksington 5 points6 points ago

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Awareness?!?! How deep does your cave need to be, to be unaware of corporate greed, bank bailouts and the high unemployment rate?

[–]I_sense_highschool 1 point2 points ago

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its called the south and midwest, but yes there's an entire population ignorant to what's happening in politics, finance, and the general well being of the country. Not everyone is on reddit getting bombarded by /politics, /worldnews, and /economics posts every day

[–]Jay-Dar 3 points4 points ago

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Im from the mid-west and i am aware

[–]Leksington 1 point2 points ago

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That's ridiculous. The people who are so unconnected that they are clueless about the economy, aren't going to hear about the Occupy Wall street protests.

[–]ryhntyntyn 2 points3 points ago

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They have caused awareness of the current f-ked up situation in America.

You think people didn't think shit was fucked up before? Apparently you don't know any black people. Shit.

[–]DoctaStooge 5 points6 points ago

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It's been less than a month. What the hell do you EXPECT to happen?

[–]BawbDowl 1 point2 points ago

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Unless OWS accomplishes all of its goals within a few hours of starting it has failed. Well that's what Reddit thinks at least. I mean people were saying that OWS failed to accomplish anything right when they started.

[–]Godabed 1 point2 points ago

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i'm not dirty i shower daily.....

[–]danimal2011 1 point2 points ago

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God damn HIPPIES! The only time I'll actually condone the police using fire hoses as crowd control

[–]xafimrev 1 point2 points ago

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They are not "making" anything happen. People like to say this and when you question them on it it is always some vague derpage about "awakening the masses"

[–]CoyotePeyote 1 point2 points ago

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thank you for posting this. That "polos and khakis" post was disgusting

[–]penkilk 20 points21 points ago

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I think that post was in recognition of the fact that the corporate media will be looking for the 'flaw' to harp on, so they can diminish and marginalize the protest. That has proven largely true, just about every non internet based report has harped on this mundane fact.

People like you and me don't care, but lots of people do care and I guess the aim was to engage those people as well. Dismantle the hippie argument by not dressing like hippies, or something like that. But I don't think the Khaki post correctly identified just how willing the media is to falsify fact. If everybody dresses like a Best Buy salesman they will film an incoherent bum nearby and make him the new face, they won't switch their message or their miss-coverage just because people dressed proper.

But the post wasn't disgusting, just trying to help!

[–]silenta 4 points5 points ago

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Agree. Most of the articles that I've seen about Occupy Wall Street (or similar action elsewhere) contain TONS of negative comments about the "hippies" - it is ALL that they focus on. They see college aged kids, in grungy clothes and they don't feel connected to the protesters or the cause.

[–]karmahawk 12 points13 points ago

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"Hey you people without jobs and piles of debt, comeback after you purchase nicer, more expensive clothes, perhaps Banana Republic. Maybe then we can chitchat about that whole quality of life thing."

[–]southnole 10 points11 points ago

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But they can tweet whats going on from their 200$ phone with the 110$ bill? Get real.