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[–]wingman2011 125 points126 points ago*

Grafdigger's Cage?! Holy shit.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points ago

This is going to throw a wrench into quite a few legacy decks and probably some standard decks too. AND IT'S A FUCKING ONE-DROP IN ANY COLOR WHAT THE FUCK THIS IS GOOD.

[–]dondiscounto 8 points9 points ago

time to break out the mental missteps...

[–]aelendel 16 points17 points ago

Except it's not better than existing graveyard hate. Most hate removes the things, this... just gets bounced, then they implement plan A.

Certainly good, and probably good to throw in the mix, but not better.

[–]cameron432 20 points21 points ago

The thing that puts this over the top though is that it messes with GSZ and Snapcaster decks too.

[–]olb 3 points4 points ago*

Is GSZ affected at all? The creature card is not cast but put into play by GSZ.

Edit: Nevermind, only looked at the second line when contemplating that. This is sad :(

[–]PoisonBananas 0 points1 point ago

Most of the stuff released thusfar in INN block seems to be built as to be conducive to race-based decks (humans, WolfRun, vamps, zombies, etc.) So this is nice to see as a card that will break that stagnation up...will most likely be this block's Defense Grid, used to protect combo decks, and is the first card that I have seen that might just be the first building block for a real archetype, rather than the Timmy-based thusfar.

[–]whiskeyjackjack 14 points15 points ago

yeah i dont know why everone else isnt talking about this card

[–]jestergoblin[S] 28 points29 points ago

Because I just typed it in. But good lord, there goes my reanimator deck...

[–]EdgarAllenBroe 6 points7 points ago

I suspect dredge in some form will take a hit from this card as well.

[–]gregtron 4 points5 points ago

Dredge players already bring in Ancient Grudge and Chain of Vapor to deal with Leylines, Crypts, and the like. This is like a slower, worse version of those cards that allows you to dredge willy-nilly til you want to pull the trigger.

If your graveyard hate lets your opponent fill their graveyard, they're not necessarily going to be emotionally devastated.

[–]wchoc86 1 point2 points ago

yea, not nearly as bad as reanimator though. It shuts off Ichorid, narcomeba, and dread returns, but dredge can still hard cast some of its guys and get bridge tokens, reanimator just straight up can't play it's creatures when that's out.

[–]Arctanxx 2 points3 points ago

Reanimator play Show and Tell after Sideboard and nobody will play the Cage main deck. It will never give you free win if the Reanimator player knows how to play.

[–]Mister-Manager 6 points7 points ago

Reanimator will be ok. This card is basically the same deal as Leyline: bounce it, counter it, Show and Tell, or you lose. It doesn't even come down turn zero, so that's a plus. I'd be more worried if I was a Dredge player.

[–]Davran 2 points3 points ago

As a dredge player I disagree. Most dredge sideboards already run 3x Ancient Grudge and 3x Nature's Claim at a minimum for all of the other artifact based graveyard hate out there (Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus). The default game 2 sideboard plan is to put some number of those in (depending on the matchup) since artifact based hate is by far the most common. Plus, the win percentage of dredge in game 1 is high enough that there may well be a game three to allow even better sideboarding now that the exact hate card is known.

This thing is annoying, sure...except the cards are still in my graveyard. Bridge from Below isn't turned off, either. All I need to do is destroy this and it's game on for the dredge plan.

[–]CaptWalmart 0 points1 point ago

Yep, it is good but not the apocalypse, just means that decks that will have an issue with it will need to have some hate for it in the side.

[–]Deadmirth 5 points6 points ago

Yeah, my reaction was along the lines of "Oh hey, another card that can go in any color that makes my deck not work."

Then again, faithless looting might spur me to make a BR list with some artifact removal. Especially considering I own Badlands, but not Underground Seas.

[–]nonvivant 0 points1 point ago

Part of me wants to run a BR aggro deck with undying, Flayer, and maybe Burning Vengeance if Gravecrawlers are a reliable thing.

[–]Sephiroth912 9 points10 points ago

Wizards sure knows how to hit the eternal formats where it hurts sometimes. And it's only a 1 drop to boot. I foresee a number of these in my friends' EDH decks to stop my Sharuum deck from going nuts.

[–]aricene 7 points8 points ago

Every time I've heard people talk about the costs of Legacy versus Standard, they say Legacy is cheaper in the long run because you can play a deck for years on end without changing much.

WotC seems to want to say otherwise.

[–]Ninjalicious 8 points9 points ago

Eh, nobody liked dredge anyway /sarcasm

[–]Nyarlathotep124 2 points3 points ago

How is that sarcasm? It's no fun to play with, it's no fun to play against. People use dredge, but they don't like it.

[–]DaGarver 9 points10 points ago

Disagree. I've played Dredge a few times and found it quite enjoyable. It's different from any other deck, which makes it fun.

[–]FRAGM3NT 2 points3 points ago

After playing dredge for a good while I tend to agree with you.

Dredge is like two-face masturbating. Sometimes you go off and sometimes you don't, with pretty much no interaction from your opponent..

Granted it takes a bit to learn the deck though once you do you feel like autopilot is on EVERY TIME.

[–]Ninjalicious 2 points3 points ago

I think Dredge is cool, especially manaless dredge. It's the kind of creativity that makes Legacy play so interesting. Is it too powerful? Maybe, but I still think it's a neat deck.

[–]gregtron 2 points3 points ago

Seems like everyone forgets graveyard hate has been pretty damn good for a long time.

[–]agm257 2 points3 points ago

Legacy does end up being cheaper in the long run -- your expensive cards (duals, fetches, Forces, etc), aren't changing, and aren't really going to change. Also -- when you're done playing Magic, or you want to play a different deck, your Legacy cards are going to keep their value, while the vast majority of your standard cards are going to be near worthless (let me know what Seachrome Coast is selling for in a year).

Honestly though, I play legacy because I find the format more fun than Standard, it has nothing to do with cost.

[–]skullpizza 1 point2 points ago

I should introduce you to my friend Tormod's Crypt.

[–]Shambly -1 points0 points ago

EDH can only have 1 but yeah it should go in any eternal format deck or sideboard at the least

[–]KingPoopty 2 points3 points ago

Well in U/B you've got:

Trinket Mage, Fabricate, Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Demonic Collusion, Diabolic Intent, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Rune-Scarred Demon, Liliana Vess, and Intuition.

And that's just cards that can find it in two colors. Quite simply, it shuts down graveyard strategies like no other grave hate before it. Good thing just about all of those cards also find Krosan Grip.

[–]CaptWalmart 0 points1 point ago

It doesn't stop tutors. It simply says you cannot Cast cards from your library, (Magus of the Future, Futuresight).

[–]agm257 3 points4 points ago

Just curious -- how is this much worse for Reanimator than like...Tormod's Crypt or Leyline of the Void or whatnot?

This doesn't seem that tough to play around, you still get to set up your hand/graveyard, and you either go the Show/Tell route, or you wait until you draw Chain of Vapor.

Not saying it's bad...it just seems way too similar to all the other cheap Graveyard hate to start freaking out about.

[–]GinNMiskatonics 3 points4 points ago

Tormads is a one shot, and still very good, but thus lasts.

Void means you have to have it in your opening hand or be playing black with the ability to race faster than reanimator.

Edit: this is a turn one for any color. All of the hate has a good point and bad point for example crypt permanently removes the cards but just once. This only keeps them safely tucked in the yard until it gets removed. All in all I think it's just a new option.

[–]Matt100020 0 points1 point ago

Correct me if I am wrong but only entomb will no longer work? Can I careful study discard then exhume. Rather than entomb exhume?

[–]rzwitserloot -1 points0 points ago

Look, if someone is intent to waste an entire card wholesale on countering a specific kind of deck they're just going to play Leyline of the Void. If they want to dedicate more than 4, they add Serum Powder to it.

If this could be sacced for a card, cycled, or otherwise, maaaaybe. But, frankly, if I want to hose me some reanimator decks in a more casual fashion I'll just grab a Relic of Progenitus or Scrabbling Claws. At least I can cycle those on the cheap. And in competitive, I'll toss some leylines in the sideboard.

This card is not going to make a difference at all in vintage, legacy, and modern. It exists as a backstop just in case reanimator/flashback decks become insane in standard. Then there's one 'holy shit I just won next game?' counter in the format to stymie the hypothetical runaway popularity of such a deck type. WOTC do this all the time. It's a safety thing.

[–]alpha_omicron 3 points4 points ago

Snapcaster Mage, Green Sun's Zenith, Dread Return, Past in Flames, Ancient Grudge, Reanimate, Narcomoeba, Tinker, fetchland + Dryad Arbor, Animate Dead, Exhume, Yawgmoth's Will, Oath of Druids, Natural Order ...

[–]elbenji 7 points8 points ago

All of it...gone. Welp, they just made the meta just pay hard...

[–]Sdwmaster21 0 points1 point ago

Learn to Sideboard and you get all ^ to work just fine.....QQ a little more.

[–]j2los 2 points3 points ago

birthing pod..

[–]steadywing 5 points6 points ago

This card completely changes the meta.

[–]busdude 20 points21 points ago

I like how Wizards prints a fucking hoser that neuters half the decks Innistrad is encouraging us to build.

And wow it stops things like Green Sun's Zenith as well wtf.

[–]ParkerPWNT 6 points7 points ago

Especially ridiculous considering that the Grave Born deck is only a few months old aswell

[–]ahhgrapeshot 7 points8 points ago

This is like saying Torpor Orb killed "enters the battlefield." People don't carry around Torpor Orbs just for o-rings. And people won't carry the cage around just for Snapcaster.

[–]Baron_von_Derp 19 points20 points ago

I understand and agree with your point but technically Torpor Orb doesn't stop O-Ring :)

[–]RaenefVII 12 points13 points ago*

Except that it stops green sun's zenith, birthing pod, anything with flashback (snapcaster or not), anything with undying, burning vengeance, gravecrawler, havengul lich, unburial rights, sun titan, etc.

It hoses so many cards that many different, commonly played decks either play or would want to play when DA comes out, with several of these cards being the centerpiece of the deck they are used in.

Torpor orb stopped what commonly played cards, the titans and o-ring? There may be a few others I'm missing. And it didn't even really stop the titans, it just made them regular 6/6 dudes the turn they came in. They still got their abilities activated when they attacked. Grafdigger's Cage COMPLETELY stops any graveyard/library shenanigans, as well as making most undying creatures into over-costed regular dudes.

And that's just talking about standard.

Also it being a 1-drop makes it easy to fit into your curve, and you can search it up with trinket mage if you are playing blue.

[–]GinNMiskatonics 3 points4 points ago

Remember when people though birthing pod might be viable again with undying?

[–]gasface 2 points3 points ago

Remember when every Birthing Pod list ran multiple Acidic Slimes?

[–]GinNMiskatonics 2 points3 points ago

A 5 drop answer is not very viable when you always have to hard cast it.

[–]LaboratoryManiac 8 points9 points ago

This is the new Pithing Needle.

[–]PT410X 36 points37 points ago

I'm not sure I agree 100%, but it sure seems to be pithing people off.

[–]shazzam6999 11 points12 points ago

People are always going to get pissed off, that's the price of progress.

[–]tilio 7 points8 points ago

but with this, people might get so pissed off that they even go for the throat.

[–]FoWsUrDuress 6 points7 points ago

Graveyard decks: Ruined Forever (OR MAYBE NOT)

[–]Davran 2 points3 points ago

You forgot Ravenous Trap...there were a lot of tears for that one too. It's almost like the graveyard decks pack multiple ways to deal with artifacts. This one doesn't even remove the cards from my yard...so thanks guy!

[–]tankintheair315 6 points7 points ago

I'm sure other people are pissed but as a fish player, I'm cool with this.

[–]jestergoblin[S] 0 points1 point ago

It was listed on the Visual spoiler, but thank you.

[–]Draaaan 0 points1 point ago

One thing that confuses me, as someone who never got to play with older sets--Since most library interactions just put things into play, what's the purpose of preventing things from within the library from being cast?

[–]ubernostrum 2 points3 points ago

Simpler templating. Panglacial Wurm isn't really a threat. Neither is Garruk's Horde.

[–]gasface 2 points3 points ago

Stuff like Green Sun's Zenith and Birthing Pod is pretty swell though.

[–]WhoKnowsWho2 0 points1 point ago

I just ordered cards so I can get a deck that cheats Emrakul from the library to the battlefield. If my friends play Grafdigger's Cage, I'll cry.

[–]koolkid005 0 points1 point ago

Does it kill Natural Order?

[–]Freeside1 1 point2 points ago

Sure it's good, but it seems like almost everyone is forgetting how much artifact hate exists.

[–]ubernostrum 31 points32 points ago

To anyone who's surprised by Grafdigger's Cage: historical context is important.

Over the history of the game, there are two broad classes of mechanics that WotC has tried repeatedly, and which have led to drastically overpowered shenanigans.

One of those is free or severely-reduced-cost spells. The Urza block "free" spells (the ones which untapped lands as part of their effect) were the first huge offender here, but see also Dream Halls, the waffling banned status of Gush, the massive bans in the wake of Affinity, the endless grumbling over cascade and the Mental Misstep debacle.

The other... is mechanics which let you abuse your graveyard. Again we can turn to the Urza block -- with Yawgmoth's Will -- for the classic example. But dredge is up there too, Entomb has been off-and-on banned, etc., etc.

So it stands to reason that they're going to be worried about that when doing a block that centers heavily around the graveyard. We're getting lots of good flashback spells, and we're getting new graveyard-oriented mechanics. This naturally leads to some concern, and to a desire to be careful and have some sort of "safety valve" around immediately, rather than waiting a year or more to print one (as in the case of Kataki being too little, too late to stop Affinity).

We already know that cards like Oblivion Ring are sitting in Standard because of concern over the power level of planeswalkers. Is it any surprise that since it's a known-dangerous area of the game, a strong graveyard hoser would appear in this block?

[–]nonvivant 5 points6 points ago

I'm not surprised but it seems like by trying to restrict grave decks in eternal formats, they've crushed them in Standard. As is, it was looking mostly like a way to build some durdly combos into silly tier 2 decks. And now those decks are getting kicked in the teeth.

[–]skolor 9 points10 points ago

Honestly, as someone who has been trying to make the UG self-mill deck work for a little over a month now, there was already very serious hate options for graveyard tech. Both Nihil Spellbomb and Surgical Extraction have been available for the exact same cost, and are harder to sidestep the effect of. An artifact is relatively easy to get rid of, especially a 1 mana one. Neither of the other two had the same benefit, as they would be used to exile cards from your graveyard at instant speed.

Its definitely a hoser, but its a good way to rein in any broken graveyard shenanigans, and its easier to deal with that the existing hosers. I'd be very happy to see this taking up slots in sideboards instead of spellbombs and extractions.

[–]sesstreets 2 points3 points ago

As someone trying to make a burn deck in legacy I'm happy. Why? Because now every other deck gets to feel what red has felt for years. Kor Firewalker, chill, umezawas jitte, baneslayer angel.

This is something in legacy that:

  1. Can be played in all decks.

  2. Stops practically unfair moves in legacy from happening.

  3. Curbs what could be a graveyard is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS set.

[–]Kiljirdan 2 points3 points ago

to be fair, there was enough graveyard hate in Legacy already. This card is giving a tool to standard and maybe more variety to Modern, but Legacy? There are enough options already.

The only new hate this introduces is Tutor hate (green suns zenit) which is not bad.

And if there wasnt effective ways to counter Burn.dec the format would be dull as hell. Playing Burn is fun, playing against it is like goldfishing with a timer.

[–]Smoofer 28 points29 points ago*

I'm really sad to see Grafdigger's Cage as such easy hate to burning vengeance and Gravecrawler, altough BV will have Ancient Grudge to deal with it.

Edit: Now I'm even more sad... this cancels undying... I understand that you have to prevent some strategies from becoming dominant but you don't have to give every deck a 1 mana answer that some colors can't even really deal with...

[–]gammon9 12 points13 points ago

Yeah, I don't know why they needed to print a cheap artifact hoser to strategies that aren't even seeing success in standard yet. It's just crib death for a lot of potential decks.

[–]Beerblebrox 7 points8 points ago

Exactly. I was so excited to see a more diverse selection of playable decks (I'm getting really sick of W/U), but this card just gave a debilitating weapon to the decks that were already the most powerful.

I'm really disappointed.

[–]aricene 4 points5 points ago

The cage could have at least stopped Moorland Haunt tokens. Instead, it just stops Think Twice, Desperate Ravings, Forbidden Alchemy, and anything else that might find an answer to Moorland Haunt and Delver.

I'll probably be more calmer tomorrow morning, but, right now, looking at this for the first time, I'm angry. This makes me feel like a chump for playing Magic. So much for half of the cards in Innistrad.

[–]themast 2 points3 points ago

Except this also hurts W/U because it turns off Snapcaster, which is pretty important to a deck that is running 20+ instants/soceries to make Delver flip consistently. Not many players are going to want to kill their own card advantage like that, especially when they are already able to shut down a lot of GY shenanigans by simply sitting on counterspells like a good tempo deck should. It is an annoyance, but certainly not the end of the world. We survived Pithing Needle, we can survive this...

[–]Smoofer 34 points35 points ago*

Seriously... The card might as well be called

Dreamcrusher 1

Artifact ( R )

As long as CARD NAME is in Standard: New,fun, interactions can't occur.

[–]nonvivant 32 points33 points ago

Dreamcrusher, Bane of Johnnies. Alternately, you could name it Fuck You Grixis: The Artifact.

[–]bonethug9000 2 points3 points ago

Ancient Grudge is even better now!

[–]nonvivant 6 points7 points ago

And I have a playset! I stand to make like a dollar profit!

Man this optimism thing is nice.

[–]bonethug9000 11 points12 points ago

With margins like that, you could buy some Storm Crows.

[–]Sephiroth912 1 point2 points ago

And Legacy Reanimator.

[–]jtjin -1 points0 points ago

OH! I didn't know NS was only 1 cmc ... quietly adds mental missteps to his sideboard

[–]Smoofer 0 points1 point ago

A continual effect is a little different than a one time use. Especially when the continual use one kills quite a few more decks and can't be pithing needled

[–]nonvivant 4 points5 points ago

Yeah. It's not like BV was even good yet, either. It was a fun little lower-tier deck that just got unambiguously hosed.

[–]FoWsUrDuress 2 points3 points ago

It was going to get exponentially better though, and it'll still be good. Even if cage hits it pretty hard, it's still going to be a sideboard card, and BV will have Ancient Grudge to deal with it (or something more extreme if the meta calls for it).

I'm still going to be playing ALL of the graveyard-based decks I want to, hate cards be damned

[–]Bladewing10 3 points4 points ago

I'd like to think they learned their lesson from JTMS and started to put in easy to case answers to everything they do.

That said, I'm not sure Cage is that much better than Tormod's or any of the other graveyard hate around. All they have to do his remove it and then combo out. Cage may slow them down enough for you to win, but it's probably the same amount of slow down Tormod's provides. Also, Tormod's is more versatile by being able to hit Threshold decks and Goyf.

[–]Smoofer 9 points10 points ago

I agree that it isn't as astounding in Legacy, but I just hate how in Standard, they show us all these cool graveyard matters cards, sweet combos, an awesome new persist, and then one of the best hosers for what they have just printed. I could see it justified as a higher CMC, but as such a good hate card to be printed in the same set, usable by any color is just opressive for creative deck building.

[–]Bladewing10 3 points4 points ago

Again, I'd go back to JTMS. Little hate was printed for him until he became a problem and by then it was too late. I'd rather they be overly cautious then have a repeat of the Jace fiasco.

Also, I don't think this card will single-handedly ruin graveyard based strategies. If there's a good graveyard combo out there, it will be played regardless. It will just take smart sideboarding strategies to deal with the Cage.

And it could be worse: Cage could cantrip. :)

[–]aricene 4 points5 points ago

Wizards has a very bad track record with printing hosers. It seems like they either do nothing, the way Hex Parasite and Despise were supposed to answer JTMS but didn't, or they turn half of a block a waste of cardboard.

[–]Smoofer 2 points3 points ago

Yeah, I guess you're right in that it's them being extremely careful with limiting some strategies, though I think the answer really lies in testing these graveyard based strategies better instead of printing strong hate in the same block, limiting design space.

[–]darkshaddow42 1 point2 points ago

This also ruins Green Sun's Zenith and Birthing Pod. Ready your grudges, you're gonna need 'em.

[–]Contrilios 21 points22 points ago

Well, can't wait to see EVERYONE sideboarding grafdigger's cage.

[–]shadowfreddy 15 points16 points ago

Just means you board in Mental Misstep. I swear, even in standard, that card is getting better and better.

[–]darkshaddow42 28 points29 points ago

Well it certainly isn't getting better anywhere else. Being banned in everything but Vintage tends to do that to a card.

[–]Beerblebrox 6 points7 points ago

This card is just horrible for the diversity of the metagame. Wizards gave us hope with some cool new mechanics and abilities, but then snatched it away by printing this piece of crap.

I certainly hope it doesn't see as much play as I know it's going to.

[–]elbenji 7 points8 points ago

It wont. If anything, all it does is provide a counter to these dynamics to prevent breaking.

[–]Beerblebrox 0 points1 point ago*

I hope you're right.

I have no problem with hoser cards as long as the card is balanced. Grand Abolisher is a fantastic example of a balanced hoser - it can completely shut down a number of strategies, but it's relatively easy to deal with. And if you want to play it, you have to be in white. Basically, if you're playing the deck it's intended to hose, it's going to slow you down but it isn't going to ruin your day.

But Graffdigger's Cage isn't a balanced hoser. It can go into any deck regardless of its mana base, it costs only 1 to cast and it can be destroyed by pitifully few cards in standard (none of which are black).

It shuts down an entire strategy (a strategy that already had to play around Nihil Spellbomb, which sees a ton of sideboard play) and it is difficult to get rid of.

[–]DaGarver 2 points3 points ago

Nihil Spellbomb is seeing tons of play? Since when?

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

But that's only if you play mono. Also we don't know the rest of what's coming in DA. For all we know we'll have a black artifact wrecker. If anything, you have options in Blue, White and Red (Mana Leak, Ancient Grudge, that new Werewolf, Oblivion Ring). All it is is something to even out the heavy use Lich and BV are going to get in the standard.

Also Witchbane Orb!

[–]Dr_Tecknologic 2 points3 points ago

Couldn't decide between U/W Delver or W/U humans. This card just made the decision for me.

[–]entwithanaxe 3 points4 points ago

Which way would that be? I'm guessing Humans since it's less reliant on Snapcaster... right?

[–]nonvivant 1 point2 points ago

If Snapcaster weren't omnipresent, I'd seriously consider building a grave matters deck anyway, just because the Cage is so outrageously good you might see it warp the format back to where nobody even plays it.

(E.g. Dismember warped standard that nobody runs anything smaller than 6 unless it's crazy value, which in turn means you see a lot less Dismember now.)

[–]elbenji 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, I doubt it's going to be /that/ drastic. There's a looot of ways to kill it. All it does is make Ancient Grudge and O-ring that much more important

[–]nonvivant 3 points4 points ago*

But now some of the most reliable ways to get Ancient Grudge don't work.

[–]Nictionary 0 points1 point ago

What about the decks that use graveyard strategies?

[–]cameron432 0 points1 point ago

I'm going to run it as a 1-of in my humans deck early main, because it hurts everything that isn't Human. And then 1 more in the board for decks that seriously get hosed by it (pod, Solar Flare)

[–]gregtron 0 points1 point ago

I'm already thinking of running it in Modern. It seems more relevant there than in Standard or Legacy.

I could see it as a one-of main-deck card in Vintage, too, as it stops nearly every degenerate thing that happens in the format (barring a natural vault/key draw).

[–]GinNMiskatonics 16 points17 points ago

Hellrider seems very much playable in RDW. It's different than oxid because it doesn't stop Weenies from blocking but some damage is going through regardless. Fuck battlecry.

[–]darkshaddow42 5 points6 points ago

I'm wondering if Hellrider could make Kuldotha Red viable again, actually. Especially powering it out T2 with Infernal Plunge.

[–]FoWsUrDuress 12 points13 points ago

Because if there's something Kred needs, it's card disadvantage in the form of infernal plunge

[–]thedarkhaze 5 points6 points ago

The problem with KRed was that it was extremely inconsistent. I don't see hellrider helping much in that department.

Plus losing bushwacker hurts it quite a bit.

[–]GinNMiskatonics 2 points3 points ago

Certainly worth playtesting anyway

[–]mtgtradingthread 0 points1 point ago

a card that makes RDW better, great

[–]superstitious_pigeon 14 points15 points ago

deadly allure + phyrexian obliterator?

[–]KarlAgathon 3 points4 points ago

Hah, and the flashback is green, which makes it thinkable for you to play Prey Upon in the same deck, which would be equally funny with Obliterator.

[–]Malicoire 0 points1 point ago

That works nicely. Maybe monoblack control sees a surge?

[–]roguediamond 2 points3 points ago

Seems good. Really, really good, actually...

[–]Dontkare 0 points1 point ago

Deadly allure + Predator Ooze.

[–]elbenji 8 points9 points ago

Grafdigger is definitely going to be sideboard...in all the metagame!

[–]Beerblebrox 3 points4 points ago

Unfortunately... :(

[–]Archonium 8 points9 points ago*

Chant of the Skifsang 2U

Enchantment - Aura (U)

Enchant creature

Enchanted creature gets -13/-0.

[–]azarhac 9 points10 points ago

A solid Limited card.

[–]jestergoblin[S] 1 point2 points ago

Thanks, it's been spoiled in English as well.

[–]HardCorwen 0 points1 point ago

I find it a waste of time. :/

[–]Mysteryman64 9 points10 points ago

I just gotta say I love some of these green creatures.

I am very seriously thinking about coming back and running mono green, my first true love.

[–]Vellon221 1 point2 points ago

I'm planning to put together mono green now, at least for casual / FNM.

[–]Etienss 0 points1 point ago

Ive been tinkering a list for the last few weeks and every day they spoil a new card to consider it's very nice ^

[–]Harrierish 3 points4 points ago

Grafdigger's Cage is amazing. But the Blue Spoilers... where are they?

[–]thedoh 8 points9 points ago

There are no blue cards in this set. Didn't you get the memo? :)

[–]Garnolin 2 points3 points ago

Maybe they're saving the best for last ? Wishful thinking...

[–]nonvivant 17 points18 points ago

Hey Grixis players? Here's a ton of stuff you'd love to play with.

Disclaimer: you can't actually use them. Ever.

Jesus, Wizards. Are you sure you don't wanna give the Cage flash and cost it at Phyrexian Colorless just to make it a little more omnipresent?

[–]klapaucius 2 points3 points ago

Phyco isn't a thing, probably because it would look too close to black.

[–]nonvivant 10 points11 points ago

I'm being facetious.

[–]klapaucius 14 points15 points ago

I'm being pedantic.

[–]nonvivant 6 points7 points ago

I'm in no position to judge you for that.

[–]Nictionary 1 point2 points ago

Meh, grixis players don't really want that much of this stuff. But yeah, that cage is pretty lame.

[–]nonvivant 2 points3 points ago

I'm not talking about like Chapin's Grixis control. I'm talking about all the toys they've given URB for different takes on grave matters decks.

[–]Malicoire 5 points6 points ago

Hellrider will see play.

[–]GHNASHER 16 points17 points ago

he's called Hellrider fuck yea you have to play him

[–]Athene_Wins 3 points4 points ago

Is Hellrider's ability "combat damage"? Or is that only when they swing to attack. If it is Swords of ___ would be game over on that guy.

[–]Freezerr 3 points4 points ago

It would not be combat damage.

[–]darkshaddow42 0 points1 point ago

It's not, but Curiosity would work.

[–]tankintheair315 5 points6 points ago

Where is my mythic GW human. If he isn't here again, I will be very sad.

[–]drodeznop 2 points3 points ago

It'll most likely be a mono white mythic looking at the other colors and sets for reference.

[–]tankintheair315 2 points3 points ago

Why? We have a GR werewolf, BU Zombie, BR Vamp, UW Spirit. Why no GW human?

[–]drodeznop 2 points3 points ago

There have been 10 mythics in the past few middle sets. So far there have been 5 dual colored mythics and 4 mono colored mythics with white left out of the spoilers.

Its just an assumption that the last mythic will fill the missing monowhite slot.

[–]elbenji 7 points8 points ago

Wait, just realized this cage basically also freezes GSZ. Jesus o.o

[–]apamise 1 point2 points ago

Exactly what came to my mind when I read that card for the second time. Still, there's Ancient Grudge and Acidic Slime for sideboard war.

[–]GinNMiskatonics 5 points6 points ago

Grafdiggers cage really only costs 1?

[–]jestergoblin[S] 3 points4 points ago

[–]GinNMiskatonics 1 point2 points ago

Not that I doubted you, you're doing a great service. But... wow. That's just mean. Reanimator, dredge in legacy. Solar flare and any graveyard fun in standard, especially considering the lich mythic is combatted before we even get to play it. Was not expecting that.

[–]jestergoblin[S] 0 points1 point ago

Heh, don't worry about it. I have made typos before on these posts. Once I said a sorcery was an instant... whoops.

[–]gammon9 1 point2 points ago

I can't see dredge caring. People who want to beat dredge can do it with leyline of the void which actually costs 0 most of the time. The only way this actually hurts dredge is if people who would not normally sideboard for dredge sideboard this against something else.

[–]iostream 0 points1 point ago

Not just reanimator and dredge - this hoses essentially the entire legacy metagame. When this is in play, RUG Tempo and UW Stoneblade loses Snapcaster and every Green Sun's Zenith deck suffers tremendously.

This is a good thing, I think. Aggro-control was dominating the entire metagame. This will be potent SB hate for all kinds of control decks - in particular, control decks that have good artifact packages. I'm thinking mainly of Counterbalance decks and prison decks along the lines of Enchantress or Lands.

[–]xNonsense 3 points4 points ago

There's gonna be a couple Grafdigger's Cages in every sideboard if zombies gets viable.

[–]therealsylvos[!] 3 points4 points ago

Wow a lot of cards spoiled today...and all I can think is MOAR! When is the whole set due to be spoiled?

[–]jestergoblin[S] 2 points3 points ago

Most likely by the end of this week.

[–]therocketlawnchair 2 points3 points ago

grafdigger's Cage, buying a play set on day one. need this soo much for my local meta. adding this to my sideboard with some metamorphs just to make it harder to remove. down vote me all you want, but im tired of opponents fanning out their graveyard and treating that as their second hand.

[–]grappler12 3 points4 points ago

But, now I can't cast my panglacial wurms...

[–]grensley 5 points6 points ago

Oblivion Ring just keeps looking better and better as we go through spoiler season.

[–]wyrmlord 6 points7 points ago*

funny enough, deadly allure works fantastically with the ooze. I can also see it being very good in draft red/black, as it turns ashenmouth hound into a free doom blade. Okay, so the cage is one of the better graveyard hosers, certainly no leyline of the void, but can lock down some decks just as hard, and for cheaper. Easily goes into some legacy sides, and some standard.

[–]nylonbandoleers 2 points3 points ago*

I'm gonna most definitely try to construct a Deadly Allure+Phyrexian Obliterator deck. That card just might be what turns Obliterator into a threat instead of a moat. Birthing Pod, Mikaeus the unhallowed and the B/G lands might make mono black with a green splash really fun. I wonder what the BG rare land in DKA is gonna bring the to the table. A titan is gonna be a huge liability with Mik+Oblit on the board. I'd love to prey upon a titan, make them sac six, and get the oblit back as a 6/6 trampler.

[–]Benjammn 2 points3 points ago

Also, Prey Upon is pretty good with Obliterator. :P

[–]he_speaks_the_truth 2 points3 points ago

I've got a BUG Obliterator deck now that will certainly be playing this. Those inquisitor flails will be put to good use.

[–]Eander 2 points3 points ago

Deadly Allure seems interesting but man I was expecting that art to belong to a much more impressive card. Ah well.

[–]Contrilios 7 points8 points ago

Has skeletal grimace taught you nothing?

[–]EdgarAllenBroe 2 points3 points ago*

Interesting. They spoiled two cards that seemingly work well together in Limited and perhaps even Standard. I really like the Ooze as O-ring and Vapor Snag are the only things that can deal with it.

*Dismember... bob loblaw. (Before a fourth reply is added)

[–]Karmmando 2 points3 points ago

Dismember, how quickly we forget thee.

[–]Malicoire 2 points3 points ago

In a RW build, Hellrider and Hero of Bladehold attack together for 15. Could be fun.

[–]Mijji 4 points5 points ago

I think that the tokens that are tapped and attacking will not trigger Hellriders ability. Just like how they can manoeuvre past Gideon's +0 ability to swing to the face.

[–]Archonium 0 points1 point ago

Good night, sweet prince;

And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

[–]shazzam6999 2 points3 points ago

What the fuck. I didn't even get to try to make Zombie Apocalypse work.

[–]neerajman 1 point2 points ago

I know it's been said, but HOLY SHIT GRAFDIGGER's CAGE

This card fits into ANY deck and you only need one in play to shut down a bunch of cards in standard. A SHIT TON of cards in standard. It's tutorable with Treasure Mage too, and Tezz can dig for it with his +1 ability before he animates to smash your face in as well.

I just realized that my Heartless Summoning deck with Tezz as a backup engine will really like this card. But there goes my use for Havengul Lich.

[–]RageBoner 2 points3 points ago

Just a couple more oozes and my Ooze EDH deck dream will finally come to fruition MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

[–]Sdwmaster21 0 points1 point ago

Everyone that is getting all WTF were they thinking about Grafdigger's Cage Its going to ruin the game!! need to just retool there decks a bit to account for this being in most peoples decks in the new Meta-game. Naturalize, Ancient Grudge, Revoke Existance, and COUNTLESS more removal or other cards that can put this away long enough for you to get something going. Sideboarding is part of the game for a reason, and this is going to be a big part of that now.

[–]Sephiroth912 1 point2 points ago*

I like the Predator Ooze, defintely seems like there could be some interesting things with that card. Might have to try it in my RG deck for fun and see how it turns out. I'm not sure about Deadly Alure, though. Maybe with Ashenmouth Beast Ashmouth Hound, I guess it could be pretty solid.

EDIT: Not sure how I got Ashenmouth Beast, but ah well, close enough I suppose.

EDIT2: Also, Hellrider is really, really good. Seems like it could get out of hand pretty quick in the right sort of deck. 4 mana for a 3/3 body with haste that basically turns every one of your creatures into a small pinger. I like it a lot, definitely going to have to try him out a bit.

[–]Contrilios 0 points1 point ago

If only allure forced target creature to block... Still could be useful, at least in draft.

[–]Darkbyte 2 points3 points ago

Because it doesn't say target it now has a chance to get rid of an Invisible Stalker or other hexproof creatures. It's much better this way imo

[–]Sephiroth912 5 points6 points ago

Not quite strictly better though. Printing it either way has its pros and cons.

[–]therealsylvos[!] 2 points3 points ago

When is player ever NOT attacking with his invisible stalker? Only the turn it comes down. pretty narrow if you ask me.

[–]imNTR 3 points4 points ago

Am I the only one that is underwhelmed by dka? I think its a great flavorful set with nice cards but except for Sorin nothing to powerful and or special.

[–]darkshaddow42 3 points4 points ago

Honestly? That's all I was hoping for.

[–]drodeznop 0 points1 point ago

Predator ooze is going to be a beating against decks without much useful removal.

[–]Deadmirth 0 points1 point ago

It's kind of slow. Maybe a GR midrange with slagstorm/blasphemous act, and Thrun for control.

[–]drodeznop 0 points1 point ago

While it is slow, it comes in on turn 2 since you're playing green, and is a 2/2 minimum when swinging. It also has great synergy with prey upon. Not sure how much standard constructed play we'll see, but I can see it becoming an incredibly annoying card.

[–]gammon9 1 point2 points ago

Hellrider... better than Hero of Oxid Ridge? I think maybe.

[–]Jesusforall 1 point2 points ago

Hellrider or Hero of Oxid Ridge? With Hellrider, your creatures can ping but Hero gives your creature killing power. Hmm...

[–]roguediamond 0 points1 point ago

Hellrider seems like an auto-include in RDW, grafdigger is going to be the bane of my dredge deck's existence, and Ooze and Allure... Well, holy shit!

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

Also, can we get a better link for Hellrider? It's a little difficult to find >>

[–]jestergoblin[S] 3 points4 points ago

Check the visual spoiler, it's listed.

[–]elbenji 6 points7 points ago

I saw the visual spoiler, but it just offers MTV Geek which...yeah...

[–]mysticrudnin 1 point2 points ago

I doubt that anyone else noticed, but for those interested: this (or maybe second or so) is the first article written in Korean, with Korean cards.

I've been clicking the spoiler links each day and my mothership has been set to Korean, but the articles have been English (with things like times and dates still in Korean)

Some of the things are still English though, so they aren't writing everything completely in Korean yet.

Yay. :)

[–]Peripheryy 0 points1 point ago

Just thought I'd ask ITT, is scars of mirrodin going out of standard decks when this comes out?

[–]ubernostrum 2 points3 points ago

No.

Standard rotates once, only once and exactly once each year. Not when each set comes out.

For more info, see this post from the sidebar :)

[–]Apnea808 0 points1 point ago

Fuck yeah, spoilers!

[–]Stillson 0 points1 point ago

Any control decks worth their salt are running Ratchet Bomb in the SB for Moorland Haunt and Midnight Haunting tokens. Just another utility for the bomb.

[–]darkshaddow42 0 points1 point ago

Red/blue with Hellrider and curiosity? It's worth a shot in casual, at least.

[–]thedoh 1 point2 points ago

The more and more I think about Grafdigger's Cage the more sad I become.

It really does hose the tightness of a mostly mono-green deck. GSZ is pretty important to get these heavy hitters out on time but, argh. Oh well. I guess there's more naturalizes and grudges going into the board.

[–]Darktidemage 0 points1 point ago

deadly allure will be sick on things like the 1/4 mill 4 cards skabb.

[–]Kayjin 0 points1 point ago

Predator ooze + Deadly Allure sounds fun. :)

[–]FlamingBagOfPoop 0 points1 point ago

Well Grafdiggers cage puts a cramp in my dredge deck. At least it's easier to deal with than a Leyline of The Void.

[–]paperwarrior 0 points1 point ago

Graveyard hate that's bad against Life from the Loam!