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[–]chippyafrogRhaegar the noble and dead 35 points36 points ago

The point of changing the names I felt represented the transformation as a character. How those characters were being identified by the world or by themselves.

Either that or boredom.

[–]grougWearer of Much Sunscreen 20 points21 points ago

Yeah, I think it's how they see themselves. I mostly got that from Theon's chapters in ADWD, going from Reek to Theon (with some stops along the way) in the same way that he was, but also Asha goes from being the Kraken's Daughter to the King's Prize (or something, I don't have the books with me). Arianne is never a queenmaker, but she thinks she is until she's captured. Jon Connington mostly identifies himself by his exile until he comes back and reclaims his griffinness.

That just seems like it fits what GRRM is doing with the titles.

[–]atomicbison 27 points28 points ago

The first Theon chapter in ADWD literally had me doing a YES! fist pump. I think it was one of the few awesome uses of that particular device.

[–]Explosion_JonesThough mayhaps this was a blessing 19 points20 points ago

Oh man, and at the end of Asha's last chapter?

He raised his eyes. “Sister. See. This time I knew you.”

Asha’s heart skipped a beat. “Theon?”

His lips skinned back in what might have been a grin. Half his teeth were gone, and half of those still left him were broken and splintered. “Theon,” he repeated. “My name is Theon. You have to know your name.”

I about cried.

[–]ogreblood[S] 7 points8 points ago

Theon Greyjoy's gonna have to work damn hard for me to feel any sympathy toward him.

[–]Explosion_JonesThough mayhaps this was a blessing 12 points13 points ago

I loved Theon! He was cocky and brazen, he banged wenches and stabbed motherfuckers. It's not like he wanted to fight the North, but once he got ordered to he carried it out with balls and aplomb and intelligence. Sure, he made some mistakes, killed some people I kinda liked, but he was still a badass.

[–]officemonkeyHouse of Payne 5 points6 points ago

Fuck Theon. Faithless bastard. Robb was your closest friend and you fucked him in the ass.

Fuck Theon. He's not even a good Greyjoy. Showing up demanding his birthright and doesn't even know how to pay the Iron price. Even his own sister is a better man.

Fuck Theon. If Ramsay hadn't done it already, I would've chopped his dick off myself.

(Apparently we have differing opinions.)

[–]albertcamusjr 4 points5 points ago

"just taking orders"

[–]evanthesquirrel 3 points4 points ago

He was never following orders, he wanted Daddy to love him. Think about it, he never was welcome anywhere. He was always seen with scrutiny in the North, then he returns home and they spit on him for being soft.

[–]Explosion_JonesThough mayhaps this was a blessing 5 points6 points ago

I never said that, and there's no excuse for what he did to the people of Winterfell, but come on man, how big do your balls have to be to take that castle with like 30 dudes? It was a war, he was was on the other side.

[–]albertcamusjr 2 points3 points ago

You did say that in not-so-many-words. "It's not like he wanted to fight the North, but once he got ordered..." I'm just pointing out that there is no glory in following orders if the orders are bad.

Besides, the squids were not at war with Winterfell, and even so he is one heck of a traitor to the boys who raised him almost like a brother and at worst like a cousin. Of course, I do not think it was easy being raised a ward and I sympathized with him like mad at first, but I do not think that excuses him in the least for Winterfell. I just don't.

That being said, I didn't think he deserved the Reek business.

[–]Explosion_JonesThough mayhaps this was a blessing 0 points1 point ago

You left out the second part of my sentence. I'm not saying his orders were good or that he was good for following them, I'm saying that he was a badass. Also the Greyjoys were at war with the North. Why shouldn't he have sided with his family and done everything in his power to fight the enemy? Don't forget that the Starks were his captors that whole time.

[–]ColonelFlashmanThe Chequy Lion 0 points1 point ago

Meh, the Northmen did the same. Roose Bolton says that the Tallharts and Glovers are likely to massacre the people of Darry as they lost sons. Theon did less to the people of Winterfell than any other side in the WOTFK did to their enemies.

[–]Artemisian11Stars fall to light the way 4 points5 points ago

Godwin's Law: you cannot escape it.

[–]PikaKyri 0 points1 point ago

I honestly disliked Theon, but I feel like the things that happened to him more than balanced it out. No matter how nasty he got, I can't help but feel bad for someone who's tortured that badly.

[–]themagicsnail 2 points3 points ago

I think you're exactly right. Considering all the foreshadowing and clues readers have found within the text, something as conspicuous as naming chapters would not just be arbitrary. He named the chapters as he did for a reason, and I think you nailed it.

[–]Drizzle055 2 points3 points ago

Or because its awesome. When I read the chapter titles Kingbreaker and Dragontamer and just flipped my shit and forced myself to continue reading... although on one of those chapters I was sorely disappointed

[–]aeroerinLady of Bear Island 11 points12 points ago

I thought it may be to avoid people spoiling themselves by reading the list of chapters at the beginning of each book.

But it could also just be to break up the monotony of mere character names as titles and rather reveal something about the character or shape your opinion of them as you read the chapter. Oh, GRRM.

[–]smuggy 15 points16 points ago*

I don't think GRRM changed the chapter titles in ADWD sheerly out of boredom. They're named the way they are in order to force us to treat those chapters differently than the standard POV ones.

The name change chapters (Reek, Alayne, etc.) indicate some change in the characters, as you note. The non-name titles (e.g. "The Queenmaker", "The Windblown") highlight that the POV character is being used to illuminate a particular part of the story. They're not given the longer arcs or more complex characterization that the standard POV characters get.

The exception to this latter category might be the Theon chapters. But then, his POV chapter titles as a whole seem to reflect his character arc. His first POV chapters are titled, "Theon". His later Reek chapters are called, "Reek". But when he goes back to Winterfell, he seems to be transitioning back to Theon. So the title names are neither Theon nor Reek, but describe what he is at the time: "The Prince of Winterfell", "The Turncloak", "A Ghost in Winterfell".

[–]nowonmai666King's Man 5 points6 points ago

I think it's at least in part to prevent the table of contents being a spoiler; GRRM loves to fake people out by pretending somebody died - Arya outside The Twins or Tyrion in The Sorrows, for instance. That loses its effect if you read the TOC already.

He also has characters who are operating under different identities, or confused about their identity (Arya, Sansa, Theon) so using an epithet instead of picking one of the names they use works nicely in those cases. I'll bet he wishes he'd started AGOT in that vein.

[–]umair56Young Griff 6 points7 points ago

Personally I thought it was fun. It might signify that the character is changing or being seen differently by others but I like GRRM experimenting with his POVs.

[–]xiannI Believe 5 points6 points ago

Yeah, I thought it was fun and part of the storytelling. Like when Quentyn is "the Dragontamer" ... it inflated my expectations and made the chapter even more shocking.

[–]EddieSt86Sunset Sword 12 points13 points ago

I think with so many new characters, G wanted to introduce them with something stronger than a name. Or he just got bored. Struck me as silly too, but it doesn't really big me. As for overused phrases, books 1-3 are 50% Mummery and Japes

[–]CleverLannKing of the Rock 16 points17 points ago

And lamprey pies and Myrish lace

[–]pikpikcarrotmonHeartless, Witless, Gutless, Dickless 13 points14 points ago

Boiled leather and surcoats

[–]Strayl1ghtThe Chequy Lion 12 points13 points ago

which are as useless as nipples on a breastplate

[–]jahilia 10 points11 points ago

Especially when you're almost a man grown.

[–]BrowsOfSteelDalt of Lemonwood 9 points10 points ago

And in the middle of breaking your fast.

[–]dominic-cobbLord of Blackhaven 6 points7 points ago

On top of that there is Hodor never stopping with his hodoring.

[–]Emperor_ZachReaver 6 points7 points ago

Nuncle.

[–]simonecloneWard 2 points3 points ago

Neeps.

[–]beesburyDinner is Coming 2 points3 points ago

Words are wind

[–]kedfrad 5 points6 points ago

I think the only ones for whom it made sense were Theon (searching for his identity), Arya and Sansa (changing identities). The rest's probably just out of boredom.

[–]Captain_Sparky 3 points4 points ago

And others who make distinctive transitions from one identity to another. The rest are either characters who only get one chapter, or who only get chapters in the book we're reading. There is method to this madness and it is not boredom.

[–]kedfrad 0 points1 point ago

I don't know... sure, all of them go throw some changes in their position or identitity ot even both but that's nothing new. Imagine how often the names of Tyrion's chapters should have changed, would GRRM always go with "change of situation --> change of chapter name". Or even Ned's. From "Lord of Winterfell" to "King's Hand" to "Discarded Hand" or something along the lines. Point is, GRRM has intriduced the concept a bit too late.

[–]Captain_Sparky 6 points7 points ago

Well I was kind of being overly simple there. By "transitions from one identity to another" I wasn't just talking about how a given character might be feeling at a given moment. I mean, sure Ned might have felt a bit like the King's Hand during the times when he was explicitly the king's hand. And indeed, if he received only one chapter ever - during his stint as king's hand - that's surely what the title would have been. But the second he's outside his office, he's just Ned. In fact, even when he's in his office he can't stop being Ned. There's never truly a time where he's not Ned.

Identity is a very important theme throughout ASoIaF. By giving a chapter an ambiguous title, it serves one of two purposes: it gives the reader insight into how the character truly defines themselves all the time (at least within the course of the chapters so-named), or it serves to identify when a chapter's POV is through a non-major character (in which case, the reader's view of their identity is so limited, they may as well define themselves as such).

Sometimes these purposes overlap, like in the case of The Ugly Little Girl, where the character in question demonstrates her ability to completely assume a new identity (rather than merely wearing the mask and pretending, as a regular person might) and to then shrug it off at the end of the chapter. The Ugly Little Girl is truly a guest POV in that way. Or Barristan Selmy, a man who is so hopelessly lost outside his home and identity in the Kingsguard, he now picks up and casts away identities every single chapter. None of them quite fit, but neither could you confidently say he was acting like "Barristan the Bold" either. Or Victarion, who seemed destined to always be a minor character until he wasn't. Compare these to Aeron Greyjoy, who cast off the identity that made him "Aeron" long before the story began, and so deeply believes in his faith that he couldn't possibly see himself as anything other than the divine voice of his drowned god (and for that matter, compare this with Melisandre, who really is receiving prophesies, but struggles with constant doubt, unwilling to fully cast off her old identity as a priestess in name only). Or contrast them with Tyrion, Cersei and Jaimie, all of whom are far too egotistical to give up their identities, no matter what happens around them or to them. At least, that's a certainty until the events in Cersei's final chapter. The safe money is on her next POV chapter, if she gets one, having a title that is definitely not "Cersei".

Consider this: Jon really seemed to have assumed a new identity as the Lord Commander. You might think that his chapters should use that title. But then remember his final chapter and the pivotal decisions he makes. Those are not the decisions of a Lord Commander, those are the decisions of someone who still wants, deep down, to be Jon Stark. Even while vehemently denying it, he wants it and refuses to let that identity go. Just like Ned refused to let go.

And for that matter, Daenerys: she is constantly being given new titles, new names. Stormborn, The Unburnt, Khaleesi, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals, Mother of Dragons, etc etc...yet her POV is always "Daenerys". In that way, her identity crisis is similar to Melisandre's and Jon's: because she hasn't assumed any identity other than her own, we can ironically infer many of the same uncertainties that plague Barristan or Quentyn, both of whom pick up any identity besides their own.

Of course, from this vantage point, we can then critically investigate the motives behind all the chapter titles in every book. One might then find that this technique might be problematic. That some POVs had titles that were poorly chosen, or that there is an inconsistency in how a character's identity has been defined throughout the series. I would argue that if such things were found, they would indicate a failure in the characterizations within the story, and not necessarily be a failure in the technique itself. Due to GRRM's writing style (the limited perspective means there is sometimes too much focus on nuance), the reader often does not have enough information to understand the bigger picture. By which I don't just mean the bigger picture of the overarching plot, but the bigger pictures of each characterization as well.

[–]kedfrad 1 point2 points ago

I like your approach, it's really hard to argue against such a well put argumentation. Have an upvote for that! There are characters where it doesn't apply that well, I think. Like Asha, who even being "The King's Prize" certainly doesn't show the uncertainty Quentyn or Barristan carry in their positions. But anyway, you have laid it out too well to argue.

[–]CleverLannKing of the Rock 3 points4 points ago

I liked this in AFFC - the new characters were one-offs (or in some cases they even had two chapters) to show some particular part of the world we had no eyes on. But then in ADWD that distinction is lost - Barristan and Quentyn have 4 chapters each, and Asha 3. I don't see why he wouldn't properly title them with their names since they were on par with some other main characters' POVs (Bran only 3 chapters, Davos 4, Melisandre 1, and they all have chapters titled with their names)

[–]TheAbyssGazesAlso3-Headed Dragon 1 point2 points ago

The worst "used way too much" is someone biting into some food and the grease running down his chin and into his beard. Honestly, it seems like it's every 3 pages or so.

[–]jimjones3d 1 point2 points ago

It was all he could do to stop himself from throwing the book across the room in frustration.

[–]wrathofg0d 2 points3 points ago*

it was employed really well with theon because it highlighted his struggle with his identity

and actually, i think martin may have been using them to represent all of the POV character's perceptions of themselves (and how that new-found perception caused them internal conflict, based on their prior concepts of self) as the chapter progressed as well.

the one's that really stand out in that regard (aside from all of theon's) are the king's prize, the spurned suitor, the dragontamer (lol), and the kingbreaker. i don't know if any other authors have used naming conventions for POV chapter titles as a literary device before. martin is awesome.

a new post/thread for discussion of each individual pov name might be pretty good, actually. in regards to the one mentioned in your original post, aeron is pretty proud of himself for foreseeing the return of the ironborn empire, but he's then dismayed by the fact that this led to euron's ascension to the seastone chair, and also allowed him to take control of the ironborn without breaking any of the drowned god's laws.

[–]BearofHappiness 0 points1 point ago

To confuse the fuck out of me?

I have enough trouble keeping up with the names as it is (SO much easier once I have faces to put to them, thanks HBO).

[–]MaxTheMadGatekeeper 1 point2 points ago

The chapter titles reflect who the character really is in that chapter; metaphorically and sometimes physically (I.E. Ser Arys Oakheart and Spoiler

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

You hit it spot on. Everyone mentioned that way has had a change of identity of some sort. Whether literal or not, there was a fundamental shift for all those characters.

[–]TheolodiousSer 0 points1 point ago

I think it's so that if we look forward, we wont immediately know who the chapter is.

[–]lilfatdogSer Brainsplat 1 point2 points ago

Whatever do you know, a nice thoughtful essay exploring this exact question ! (Basically they say that it helps evoke changes in self-identity).

[–]somnium36 0 points1 point ago

This is one of the things that drove me mad in ADWD. I agree it makes sense for Sansa, Arya, and Theon, but for the rest of the characters all that was needed was their names.

[–]frozentedwilliamsCorn! 0 points1 point ago

Three reasons:

  • transitions in characters' lives (Arya, Theon)
  • characters that you aren't expected to worry about outside their view of the action. (Damphair)
  • a bit meta, but it allows new, important POVs to distinguish themselves (Melissandra, Theon's return to "Theon")

[–]pintsofguinness 1 point2 points ago

I kind of think Martin's showing us that in the universe of ASoIaF, there aren't really essential selves. What I mean by an "essential self" is some inborn, immutable nature independent of culture or circumstances. For Martin - and for many people, I think - human nature is constructed, changing, almost like a set of roles that can be adopted, inherited, and discarded. Think Theon, for example, or Arya. They can be different people, and indeed (at various points in the narrative) they aren't recognizable to their former identities. They change, discard identities and pick up others (either they are forced into this, as Theon is, or they choose it, as Arya arguable does). I think it's fascinating that Martin chooses to showcase how slippery identity is through various names.

[–]Cynical_tamarinGo ahead, I'll just watch 0 points1 point ago

I agree - a huge narrative of ASOIAF is the absence of the absolute or object, and that really what matters is perception.

[–]Samuel_IThe Red Wolf 0 points1 point ago

The instant I saw "The Dragontamer" I knew how that subplot was going to end. Though it was something of a spoiler, I still chuckled at the inherent sarcasm and thus approved.

[–]trapiorSpear Wife -1 points0 points ago

I get irritated by the repeated use of 'a shock of (color) hair'. It was written in many chapters in a row between AFFC and ADWD.

[–]ahdn 0 points1 point ago

Mummer's farces, japing, cocks, filled bellies - so sick of all of that shit.

Also, I grew to really dislike RR's changing of the chapter names. Occasionally it felt fitting (Reek), other than that, it just felt spoilery and like he was trying to be clever.

[–]diamauntPervy Dragon Fetishist -3 points-2 points ago

boredom on our dear authors part?

[–]RheingoldRiver 0 points1 point ago

Sorry if this has been said, but I'm seeing lots of incorrect answers. The reason he's doing this is that ebook readers display a list of chapter titles at the beginning. If there's any doubt that a character may be alive at a certain point in the book, then he uses something other than their name so that you don't get spoiled upon glancing at the list of chapters.

[–]enhance_that 3 points4 points ago

Ebook readers display a list of chapter titles at the beginning?? That's such a weird new device, incomprehensible to us regular old paper book readers! Please, go on...