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Ex-Tekken Player having a hard time with SF4. (self.SF4)

submitted ago by zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist

I am an Ex-Tekken player, I have been pretty hardcore about it from 1 to 6. I lost a little drive for the game in 6 and I am not too sure why. When SF4 came out, my interest in fighting games was renewed. MVC3 really got my attention, and now I am playing a lot of UMVC3. I have gotten considerably better at MVC but I am still really horrible at SF4. I started with Cammy and Sagat, then I tryed Ibuki and Juri, then moved to Chun-li hoping something would click, and now I feel like I should using the most basic character so I can figure it out.

Maybe I am just going about it wrong, maybe its time to find a coach of some sort. I play on PS3 right now, but as soon as i get my new stick finished I will be getting an Xbox360 and I will probably get it on Steam as well.

Questions for you fine folks:

1) Should I just pick one character and stick with it? or should I learn the basics of most of the characters then specialize? 2) What character do you think is the easiest to learn? 3) I am really looking forward to SFxT. Do you think I should just skip SSF4 or will the basics here help me in all 3 games (SSF4, UMVC3, SFxT)

I just don't understand why I am losing so much. I play some online, and I know the people that I am beating online are just facerolling and I am not really "winning" they are just "losing". My success rate online is horrible compared to MVC, but what really shows me how bad I am is when I play my friends locally. With Tekken and UMVC I can hang and win more than I lose, with street fighter, there will be some nights i do not even get one win. At first I thought the problem was going from being a pad player to a stick player, but if that were the case my UMVC3 would be horrible also.

TLDR - Ex Tekken player cannot win in SSF4, but UMVC3 doesn't seem to be an issue. Looking for discussion and possibly a coach. PS3 Player.

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[–]helloeverything 4 points5 points ago

I would stick to one character as long as its complimenting your playstyle. learning the basics of each character is important if only for matchup purposes. Its a game at the end of the day, so no reason to skip it.

There really is no easiest character, thats not saying there arent some characters that are harder to pick up than others. Like tronismycat said, choose a character that reflects your playstyle and that you enjoy playing,

[–]LoveHeartShine 3 points4 points ago

Listen to this guy.

You get good the same way you did in Tekken. Pick characters that look cool until you find one you like. Play the game a lot.

[–]LoveHeartShine 1 point2 points ago

Tekken doesn't have the same mid/long range spacing game as SF. It's all short-range positioning and frame advantage.

MVC3 is a lot more "get in their face and do stuff" than SF, which is probably why that game is more comfortable to you.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 1 point2 points ago

I agree with you, and I guess its that spacing game that I am just not getting.

[–]thatONEjustin 0 points1 point ago

How can you play tekken and not pay attention to spacing?

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 1 point2 points ago

I play in what we used to call 0 (touching) and 1 (throw) range most of the time. Apply pressure, and if they are blocking then throw, or they are ducking then crush or juggle. It doesn't seem the same with SF where your using the whole screen. I understand spacing in Tekken, getting them to wiff so I can punish is also a huge part, but it just doesn't seem to translate well to SF, maybe its just me.

To me Tekken seems much simpler in that regard. For the most part we use to explain spacing like this: 0 Range = You can't get any closer to your opponent 1 Range = The distance in which your throw will still reach 2 Range = just out of throw range (this is where most stuff wiffs, especially jabs) 3 Range = you have enough room to hit ->,->,-> and start the running animation

In tekken at least up to 5.5, it was really this simple. SF seems very different.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

What seems more important than spacing in tekken is knowing what sides the attacks actually hit so you can sidestep in the correct direction to make them wiff then punish. There is none of that in SF.

[–]TronIsMyCat 2 points3 points ago

Sticking to one character will definitely help. Sagat is pretty basic, but a lot of his high-level space control is not necessarily easy or straightforward (lots of kara-ing f.lk). In all honesty you should pick a character you like, and learn the character and the game. Try to pick one that's good though, because learning a new game with a low-tier is not a great way to learn a game.

As for SFxT, it will be a brand new game, but some of the stuff will definitely translate. While there won't be any focus attacks, the SF4 characters' normals would probably all be the same, so learning how to properly anti-air or which buttons are good pokes would translate well. Matchups and combos will most likely be really different.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

This is my thought here too, I like most of the characters. So you think Sagat is a good starting point? I would like to do Ibuki/Asuka and Xiaoyu/Chun-li teams in SFxT. Would you consider them harder to learn?

[–]TronIsMyCat 1 point2 points ago

Chun is more basic/fundamental than ibuki, but she has a lot of tools still. She has like 6-8 different normals that are good for anti-airing but they're all really situational. She does a lot of tools to zone with but has a beastly frame trap game. Also, can you piano input well? if not then chun will not be a good fit to learn SF4. Sagat at a basic level is still good fireballs and a good dp, which is a good starting point to learn SF.

Ibuki is a mix up machine, and really relies on constant pressure. Definitely a good character to learn that playstyle, but I'd imagine a little difficult to play effectively as a beginner.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

Would you reccomend Ryu or Ken over Sagat?

[–]AtrophistPSN: sweetdealbruh 4 points5 points ago

A lot of my friends started with Ryu to just get the fundamentals down. He's a good character for that.

[–]Simon_K 0 points1 point ago

That. Ryu in the beginning, then move on to what you like.

[–]Grimmz 0 points1 point ago

This. I picked up Dudley when I first started playing and now playing with Shotos are weird. I do like Akuma though.

[–]TronIsMyCat 2 points3 points ago

Tough call. Comes down to preference. You want to keep them out and make them scared to move? Sagat. Want to rush them down, mix them up like crazy and make them scared to press a button? Ken. Want a little of both? SF4 Ryu. All of them are plenty fluent in SF fundamentals.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

I gonna get in the lab with Ryu, Ken and Rufus this weekend and hopefully one of them will stick out to me.

[–]synapticimpactxbl/gfwl: SoulSynapse 1 point2 points ago

Yes. The general consensus is to learn the fundamentals on a shoto, progress from there. I don't know shit about tekken so I'm gonna cut my advice short ;P haha.

[–]fnord123 0 points1 point ago

Everyone knows how to play against Ryu and Ken so it will be a challenge to play someone who hasn't read you several moves ahead.

[–]Vellon221 0 points1 point ago

lots of kara-ing f.lk

I've seen this term, "Kara" around fairly often, what does it mean?

[–]thebassethound 2 points3 points ago

Kara means "empty" in Japanese. In fighting games, it refers to cancelling an attack into another attack before the first attack's active frames begin. Typically this involves an attack that is slow to start but moves the character in some way, cancelled into a special or throw.

Examples: Ken's Kara-throw (stepkick-throw), Sagat's Kara-anything (F.LK or F.HK into special), Honda's Kara-Oicho (Overhead-command grab, can also cancel into headbutt. nb. Honda's kara cancel doesn't move him, it's more of a mixup - opponent has to guess whether or not you cancel or finish the overhead).

Hope this helps. One of Vesper Arcades tutorial videos covers this topic, mainly focussing on Ken's Kara-throw since it's considered the best Kara-throw in the game.

[–]Vellon221 0 points1 point ago

Thanks, I'll look more into it!

[–]TronIsMyCat 1 point2 points ago

It's a general fighting game term. Kara-ing is--for some normals--when you cancel a move before the active frames come out with a special move or throw. You'll see ken doing it a lot, quickly canceling f.mk with throw. Since that's his step kick, kara throwing with it effectively gives him a huge throw range. With sagat, his f.lk takes a huge step forward, and you have a huge window to cancel it. With that, his kara dp, kara tiger knee, and kara fireball are all really good tools, but take a lot of footsie/spacing understanding to really make the most out of.

[–]Vellon221 0 points1 point ago

Trying to get a good handle on this. Do you need to FADC the normals (like ken's f.mk) to cancel it into throw?

[–]TronIsMyCat 0 points1 point ago

No. You simply input the special/throw within a certain window of the startup frames. For ken's f.mk to throw (and almost all the karathrows in the game), it's as fast as a plink, but with sagats kara uppercut, the dp can be done right up until the move comes out. It's character (or rather normal) specific.

[–]HakumenPSN: Jarvdawg 2 points3 points ago

Not that it matters much for SF4, but Ono has said that they have employed a lot of well known attacks/string from Tekken into the Tekken-side SFxT characters; you should be pretty okay for Asuka/Xaioyu/Nina.

LoveHeartShine has the right idea, I know he has played a lot of Tekken in his day and is a good Third Strike player. Street Fighter has a mid to long range spacing/zoning mechanic that isn't really in Tekken. Sure, spacing is really important in Tekken but it's not full screen.

As you get used to your character (and I do recommend you find a character you like and stick with it) you will see that SF and Tekken have a lot in common: mid range footsies/spacing, whiff punishment, reactions, frame traps (to a point), etc.

Look at it this way, you'll be way ahead when Tekken x Street Fighter drops!

[–]kdash05PSN: kdash05 0 points1 point ago

I would strongly suggest Ryu as your starting character of choice to learn fundamentals. You have fireballs to get use to zoning. you have a dragon punch for anti-air and escapes. Your normal moves have pretty good properties and combo's are simple and efficient. DP, FADC, ULTRA is easy to pull off as well and gives a good damage return. I mean, I play Abel but I started playing SF as Ryu and learned that I don't like that playstyle and tried other characters. Because when you play certain characters you learn to appreciate some of them moves they have and then when you try to pick up someone that interests you, you find out things you like about them and try to compensate and use moves that are similar to the strengths of the other character that you liked

[–]joshywantsyouXBL: JoshyLifeSoHard 2 points3 points ago

Just from the fact that you are doing well in mvc and not sf immediately makes me think that you are just going balls to the wall and attacking. Sf is a much more patient game than mvc and a lot of damage will come because of a punished mistake and then either forcing or waiting for another mistake.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

I do like to keep the pressure on, and I definitely try to tone it down a notch or two when I play SF. I dont know if I need to find safer ways of poking or just tone it down even more.

[–]joshywantsyouXBL: JoshyLifeSoHard 1 point2 points ago*

Pokes are definitely important so you aren't just a bag to beat up on and in footsies.

Come to think of it you should search out the footsies handbook on sonichurricane.com.

Too many pokes can be a problem though and its one I have and am trying to break. Too much poking can lead you in to getting frame trapped as well if thou are trying to jab or tech throws too much when you are blocking.

For sure read that guide though, I would get a link but I'm on my phone at the minute.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702 here is the link, im reading it now.

[–]joshywantsyouXBL: JoshyLifeSoHard 0 points1 point ago

nice thank you

[–]coltleaderXBL/GFWL: Coltleader 2 points3 points ago

I have a little theory on this since I kinda came in the same boat as you. My original fighting background originally came from playing tekken 3; tekken tag; and tekken 4 back in the arcade when it was still around (RIP Willowbrook mall Fun & Games arcade). I think the main difference is execution and speed of attacks. I think the fastest moves in tekken are like 10 frames (I think paul had an 8 frame jab but i don't remember). A 10 frame move in SF4 is considered slow what with mostly everyone having a 4 frame jab. SF4 just feels like you have to be more aware of your opponents intentions and know exactly how to counter vice Tekken where it was mostly attack attack attack. Also in my opinion, combos are hard as fuck to do in SF4 compared to tekken.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 1 point2 points ago

Nina/Anna had an 8 frame jab also, I am not sure who else, but the 8 frame jabs have been nerfed at this point because of "online play" which still totally blows. Online play is 99% of the reason I started to make the switch to begin with. I miss the old days of arcades.

Anyway, what characters do you think would suit a tekken player? I like rushdown and in MVC3 I play Wesker, Taskmaster, Hawkeye, She Hulk, X-23. Tekken I stick to Asuka, Xiaoyu, Nina, Anna, Armor King.

[–]coltleaderXBL/GFWL: Coltleader 4 points5 points ago

Cammy. Lol I don't play a rushdown style so I don't know much about the rushdown characters but from what I've heard, cammy is pretty solid now. You can try Juri, yun, or oni, But as far simplicity goes, I'd say Rufus can be pretty easy to pick up first since his pressure revolves around his dive kicks and his combos aren't too hard to learn. Sorry but I play a more turtly/counter style. Even In tekken I played paul and steve and relied heavily on parries and whiff punishment.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

This was recommended by a friend of mine also. My rival plays Dudley, but i think my problem is that I do not understand spacing in this game so I think I am going to spend some time with Ryu or Ken this weekend check out Rufus and go from there.

[–]Omnipotent0 0 points1 point ago

I would recommend you dabble in all the characters. Like try out everyone's trial mode and then see who you like that way. It will also ge you used to the engine a little better. If you still can't decide on a main go Rufus. Rufus is the perfect starter char IMO. Ton of life, retardedly easy ultra setups and combos, and dive kick.

[–]LoveHeartShine 0 points1 point ago

Attacks are longer in Tekken because there is no hit stop.

[–]captainbitchdick 0 points1 point ago

Explain?

[–]LoveHeartShine 0 points1 point ago

http://sonichurricane.com/?p=1043

Basically every time you touch someone in SF, the entire game freezes for 10-15 frames, depending on the attack. It normalizes link timing and gives you extra frames for charge moves or to react to things. Tekken, as far as I know, has no hit stop, so it does other things to make up for it, like canned strings and slower startup moves.

[–]MabansPSN: oOMabansOo | XBL: x Mabans x 1 point2 points ago

Sticking 1 character helps tons.. But if you want to learn the basics start with RYU, also take a moment troll on youtube for videos..

Check out this for some great info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMVI-7cn04

http://youtu.be/y5iByrMk9h4

It's based around RYU and Yun but there are fundamentals in these that carry over to ALL characters.. Hit me up if you wanna play. I use Cody..

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

i will add you this weekend.

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

Ok that Ryu video was great. pointed out a lot of basics that i was missing.

[–]chris2086XBL chris2086 1 point2 points ago

Happy to coach anyone looking to improve! Feel free to add me if you're located in the east coast/mid-west! Jnooley

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

Sweet! I will be on most of the day tomorrow. Im totally east coast, Jersey style.

[–]chris2086XBL chris2086 0 points1 point ago

I will add ya so we can play when we're both online!

[–]TheGayRoommate 1 point2 points ago

I'm on PSN If you're in Europe PM me I'll coach you

[–]zerotwistPSN:Zerotwist[S] 0 points1 point ago

Im in the US, but I am normally up at odd hours, I will try to add if it is possible.

[–]Misiok 0 points1 point ago

Is the coaching viable to someone else? Still from Europe though.

[–]TheGayRoommate 0 points1 point ago

sure i guess

[–]Misiok 0 points1 point ago

Oh, cool. How do we get about it?

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