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[–]bug_mama_G 20 points21 points ago

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I can certainly understand why you are upset. But I have succesfully breast fed three kids and they all had pacifiers in the hospital and one had bottles due to medical needs. So, write a big note to put on his bassinet stating your desires but don't think that any long term damage has been done. You guys will be fine.

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 5 points6 points ago

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Thanks for commenting. My irrational side is assuming we're doomed. It's nice to know we're not.

[–]lynn 4 points5 points ago

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My daughter also had formula and a paci in the hospital and it didn't cause any problems. What did cause a problem was me being too lazy to get up and grab the binky in the first two months, offering my pinky instead, and then she wouldn't take the damned pacifier until 6 months of age.

[–]vitaminmary 5 points6 points ago

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That happened to me as well. I think you acted appropriately. I consider that to be as bad as giving the wrong medication. They need to follow orders!

[–]annjellicle 4 points5 points ago

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They did the same thing with my (now 11 month old) daughter. I was so pissed. I yelled at 2-3 nursery nurses. (yes, they asked me beforehand, and I said no pacifiers, then she came back with one, I yelled, and she came back with one AGAIN!)

But, she refuses a pacifier now (since about 2 months old) and we've successfully breastfed for 11 months (with plans to continue as long as she wants)(within reason). :-)

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[–]ADVentive 3 points4 points ago

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You are right to be upset. I would encourage you to write a letter to the hospital administration detailing what happened and how you feel about it and why you feel it is wrong. That is your best chance of anything being done about it.

Regarding the bottle of formula, I would be especially concerned because by introducing a substance to baby's tummy other than breast milk you are changing the gut flora, potentially long-term, and at least for a few weeks it seems. I would also be concerned about increased risk of dairy allergy due to the open gut, particularly if baby was given formula before he was breastfed. If baby had had a breast milk feeding before the formula, then the sIgA in the milk can coat the open gut and prevent the larger molecules in the formula from getting into the blood stream, and this risk is decreased.

If you are nursing now, then it seems that you may not have lingering effects of poor latch due to introduction of the artificial nipple, so that is a positive for you.

Good luck, and do complain to the administration so that others can hopefully avoid this situation in the future.

ETA: link

[–]MoSparkles 12 points13 points ago

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Wow. Not cool. You have every right to be pissed about that. I agree, probably no long term damage has been done, but you should definitely talk to your nurses to make your wishes clear. In fact, (as a former nurse myself) I would probably request to speak with the charge nurse and/or the nurse manager (they're in office during the day) to log a formal complaint. These practices won't change unless people raise hell to the right people. The sign on the bassinet is a good idea, as well. You can also request (demand) that you or your husband accompany the baby wherever he goes. No hospital "policy" can keep you from your son. Now, just keep that pacifier away and nurse, nurse, nurse. He'll become a pro in no time. Congrats, btw!

[–]versusboredom 2 points3 points ago

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At the very least they should have asked you. When I was in the hospital with my daughter she wouldn't latch, but because I had had gestational diabetes, she had to pass blood sugar tests. Her third came back too low, so they asked if I would consent to give her formula just to raise her sugar back to an acceptable level. They didn't offer any soothers, but I gave one to her well before the recommended 4-6 weeks of successful breastfeeding and she hasn't had any issues with nipple confusion.

[–]saltyveruca 2 points3 points ago

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Our son was in the NICU for a week and a half. We told them no pacifiers, and often hid them (haha)...they just got replaced. We went home with like five. We couldn't fight the bottles, as they had very strict rules about his intake.

Overall we were pretty much ignored in favor of standard protocols, I did a lot of yelling and crying (to no avail) and we will never be going back to that hospital again.

Anyway, it was a struggle for sure, and I know it gave us difficulty when we were actually able to breastfeed. We had to fight with him and use a syringe before we could get him to latch. But, happy story, he is almost 14 months old now and we are STILL breastfeeding successfully. A paci and bottle is not the end of the world. You can make it work.

[–]kinderdoc 2 points3 points ago

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you are not crazy.. Give them hell or it will happen to other moms. To all those other parents replying that it's not a big deal, for most babies a pacifer isn't a problem, at least once, but if it's all day, every day for the 2-4 days baby is in the hospital, it becomes more and more likely to interfere with successful breastfeeding.

[–]kittenbus 2 points3 points ago

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I am in ontario, we don't even have nursery care in the hospitals i have delivered in. Once your baby is born you look after it, whether you have a section, multiples, etc. They see a lot of babies, don't get many breaks and deal with women who have no experience with babies, women who know it all, and everyone in between. It can be a thankless job, she probably just wanted the baby to sleep so you could too. I wouldn't let the baby out of your sight until your discharged!

[–]RandomRedditSister 2 points3 points ago

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I feel stupid because I didn't even know they took babies into the nursery anymore. The one at my hospital was completely empty. They kept my son with me every second besides for five minutes to get something done but they had my husband follow with them.

But to make you feel better, my son took a pacifier perfectly fine and breastfed great. Also did great with the bottle, but I didn't give him one until he was 5 weeks. He still barely gets bottles. He prefers it straight from the tap.

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I had a c-section so those first few hours they try to force you to rest and recover. At least at this hospital. Even after all my hysterics and insisting that he stay with me he came back from having bloodwork done with a brand new pacifier. I think I'm being trolled. Screw em all I'm going home two days early (this afternoon). I might even bring the damn pacifier since we've established that he can do both.

[–]RandomRedditSister 0 points1 point ago

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I couldn't recover properly in the hospital. The bed didn't go low enough for me, so every time I got up I had to drop down to the floor or lunge myself onto the bed. It would cause excruciating pain down there and I was miserable. So instead of staying 2-3 days like my hospital likes for vaginal deliveries, I stayed like 1.5 days.

My son HATED pacifiers at first though, it took a few weeks of us trying a million different ones for him to like one. I couldn't take being his human pacifier anymore. The one night he wanted to suck but not eat and literally stayed on my boob all night. As soon as I took him off he started SCREAMING like he was being murdered. That was the day I decided to give him a pacifier. It was a life saver for at least a hour or two of sleep.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points ago*

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Did you say beforehand that you didn't want bottles/pacifiers?

edit: downvotes for a legitimate question? stay classy reddit.

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 2 points3 points ago

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To be honest it had never happened with my 3 previous babies so it didn't even occur to me. He's happily nursing now so I guess I can stop letting it bug me.

[–]tectonicus[!] 0 points1 point ago

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I'm so happy to hear that! I would have been pissed, too. When my son was born, we had somewhat less autonomy, because he was 8 weeks early, so we had to learn how to do things from the nurses (feeding involved an IV, then a feeding tube through the nose, graduating the combined breast- and bottle-feeding). But I still remember learning that he had a tiny amount of formula (maybe 5 ml) for his first feeding, and being upset that they hadn't told me first.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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He's happy and healthy, and that's the important thing :)

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Yeah I was just emotional. He's awesome.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Any emotional responses for the next 6 months or so should always be forgiven. ;)

[–]mountainash 3 points4 points ago

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Your response was not unreasonable at all. It didn't inhibit breastfeeding in your case but it does in many others.

[–]OrePhan 6 points7 points ago

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Doesn't matter, the default policy should be not to give anything to the baby without parental consent.

[–]dubstepdinosaur 1 point2 points ago

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But it's not.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 0 points1 point ago

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At our hospital, it was. We were never offered formula or a bottle. We were never even offered a pacifier, although one was available in the drawers if we wanted it.

When my first was born, we were at a different hospital. At that hospital, their policy was to ask us and check a box that was displayed on the bassinet. The box stated whether or not it was acceptable to give our child a pacifier.

Anyway, with two kids delivered at two different hospitals, we'd never experienced either of our babies being given a pacifier or bottle without our consent.

[–]OrePhan 0 points1 point ago

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It was at the birthing centers I chose. Tour places, ask questions!

[–]dubstepdinosaur 0 points1 point ago

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Oh yes, I will never have a baby at a hospital again.

[–]mossbackfarm 0 points1 point ago

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should be, but it's often not. Being explicit makes it certain that they know your wishes

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

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Does that include medications? Food? Neonatal services?

Your 'default policy' is half-baked.

[–]tectonicus[!] 9 points10 points ago

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Yes, that includes medications, food, and neonatal services. For anything that is not urgent, the nurses can get permission from the parents first. If it is an urgent health risk, then they should go ahead, but make every effort to notify the parents ASAP.

[–]ADVentive 5 points6 points ago

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Yes, they should have parental consent for anything that is given to baby. Only exception would be an immediate medical emergency which didn't allow time to get parental consent.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 1 point2 points ago

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Yes, that includes everything you listed. My second child was just born a week and a half ago. They didn't so much as give her a vitamin K shot or put antibacterial stuff on her eyes without asking us. They had a strict no-medication policy, and I had to sign a form agreeing that I would not administer any medication at the hospital or at home after we were discharged.

My daughter was never offered a bottle or formula, and I also was not offered samples to bring home (thankfully!). No nurse asked me if my daughter could receive a pacifier. Their was a new one wrapped in plastic in a drawer that I was allowed to take if I'd wanted (I didn't).

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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Why? Will the kids explode if they have one before the nurses know the parents' wishes? Honestly, I can undertand people not wanting their babies to have these things. I didn't want mine to have them either, but it's not like having them once before you tell the nurses you don't want to have them is going to form some kind of habit for the child. New parents (myself included) are just hypersensitive about these things. It's really not that big of a deal, in the grand scheme of things, whether or not your baby had a pacifier in its mouth for a half hour or so.

[–]ADVentive 3 points4 points ago

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Some babies develop nipple confusion or nipple preference when given an artificial nipple. And if a baby is given formula, he no longer has a "virgin gut", which means that the normal intestinal flora is changed long-term.

[–]interplanetjanet 2 points3 points ago

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Really? Be a bit more detailed about this, and explain how it's bad. Why would it matter what the first thing in the stomach is?

[–]ADVentive 1 point2 points ago

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link for you

Let me know if you still have questions.

[–]interplanetjanet 1 point2 points ago

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There is only one claim on that page that is even remotely relevant to the discussion, and he only cites a single paper that's more than 30 years old. One old paper with no more recent related research doesn't actually tell you anything. Can you provide some more comprehensive citations?

[–]ADVentive 1 point2 points ago

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It is an old, but not outdated, observation that breast milk and formula create different intestinal microflora in the infant, and that different gut flora influences immunity. One factor likely causing the difference in gut flora is the difference in oligosaccharide content between breast milk and formula, the breakdown of which causes a higher pH in the gut of the formula-fed infant.

The effect of early initiation of colostrum feeding on proliferation of intestinal bacteria in neonates. 1982

Development and Differences of Intestinal Flora in the Neonatal Period in Breast-Fed and Bottle-Fed Infants 1983

The intestinal microflora of infants: composition of fecal flora in breast-fed and bottle-fed infants. 1984

Diet and faecal flora in the newborn: breast milk and infant formula. 1989

In vitro fermentation of carbohydrate by breast fed and formula fed infants 1997

Factors Influencing the Composition of the Intestinal Microbiota in Early Infancy 2006

[–]interplanetjanet 1 point2 points ago

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Yes, but you're talking about the difference between breast fed babies and bottle fed babies, which is irrelevant here. We're talking about breast fed babies who get a single serving of formula. That's different.

[–]ADVentive 0 points1 point ago

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No, I'm talking about the oligosaccharides in formula which are digested differently and cause a different pH in the gut which causes different bacteria to colonize the gut. Yes, I am talking about a single serving. Not just of formula either, anything other than breastmilk. It is called "virgin gut". The article I linked in the above post was titled "“Just One Bottle Won’t Hurt”—or Will It?". I think it is clear that it refers to just that - just one bottle of formula in an otherwise breastfed baby.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 -1 points0 points ago

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Most of the benefits of breastfeeding only occur when a baby is exclusively breastfed. Any formula undoes some of those benefits.

Also, nipple confusion is very real. There are many, many mothers who will tell you about how their babies rejected their breast. My son (thankfully) accepted my breast but rejected any artificial nipples, including pacifiers. I'm glad it happened that way and not the other way around. Even experienced nurses were unable to get him to take a pacifier. If the opposite had occurred, and he took the pacifier but completely rejected my breast, I would have been very upset.

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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A baby having formula one or two times in the hospital does not mean that the baby is not exclusively breastfed. It means that the baby had formula one or two times in the hospital. Exclusive breastfeeding is the regular method of feeding, not whether or not they've had an ounce of anything but breast milk. Both of my kids were exclusively breastfed, but my son had a little formula in the hospital. He was a breastfeeding champion.

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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Most of the benefits of breastfeeding only occur when a baby is exclusively breastfed. Any formula undoes some of those benefits.

Such as? Exactly how does one single serving of an ounce or two of formula undo these benefits?

Nipple confusion is indeed real, but it doesn't happen from one serving of formula or one attempt to put a pacifier in a baby's mouth. It happens when these things are done regularly over time. Also, just because some babies don't take to the breast or a pacifier or a bottle or whatever does not mean that the problem is necessarily or even usually nipple confusion.

[–]Dikaiosyne -3 points-2 points ago

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Yep. New parents are hypersensitive. When I see one of them I just think "Wait until you are discharged and get your little rascal home" It's gonna be all YOU and nobody to blame.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 1 point2 points ago

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Mother of 2 here.

I would have been upset if a nurse gave my child a pacifier or bottle without my permission.

Also, OP is a mother of 4. She is not a "new parent."

[–]hlsp_cats 1 point2 points ago

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Ok, I just read this and freaked out. I'm due in 6 weeks and plan to exclusively breast feed. I'm definitely going to make my wishes known before he goes to the nursery!

[–]gruntlings 4 points5 points ago

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Print out a few signs for the bassinet that say in large letters "Breastfed ONLY, SEVERE MILK ALLERGIES IN FAMILY"

Of course that is true & therefore kosher for me (My mom is terribly allergic)..

Better strategy: Baby does not go to nursery w/o mom or dad.

[–]hlsp_cats 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, I told my husband last night that his job after the baby is born is to stay with him at all times. We are going to a hospital where the baby only leaves my room for checkups and shots, thank goodness, but even then I'm going to make sure he goes with him.

[–]ADVentive 0 points1 point ago

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Yah, I had a little sign that I made for the bassinet that included "NO ARTIFICIAL NIPPLES (bottles or pacifiers)", among a few other instructions. We roomed-in, but that was for "just in case".

[–]noreallyimeanit 4 points5 points ago

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I'm amazed the hospitals where you are still have nurseries for normal, healthy newborns. Most everywhere I've heard of here in Ontario has rooming-in with baby. I can't imagine being separated from my baby unless it was an emergency.

[–]hlsp_cats 0 points1 point ago

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I think it's getting more and more like that in the US (babies staying in the room with mom). My last experience with labor and delivery was probably a decade ago when a friend gave birth, and back then the babies stayed in the nursery.

[–]noreallyimeanit 2 points3 points ago

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Wow, I just can't imagine. I mean, I remember it being something I asked about during my last pregnancy... but now that I've experienced rooming-in, I just can't imagine doing it any other way. How are we supposed to have our milk come in!?

[–]kittenbus 1 point2 points ago

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I just wroth this! I am in ontario too, about to deliver my fourth baby and i have never had a baby in the nursery! Even when i had my section i was up with the baby, feeding, changing etc. That's how it should be.

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Yes do. The other people are most likely correct that it won't cause lasting harm but trust me, right after you give birth you are not emotionally stable enough to deal with random strangers fucking with your kid. I cried actual tears.

[–]hlsp_cats 1 point2 points ago

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I'm so sorry to hear that! I think I would cry too! Of course, pregnancy hormones have me crying all the time anyway but I'm already fiercely protective of this little guy and he's not even born yet. I couldn't imagine - I would rip that nurse to shreds!

[–]BadVogonPoet 1 point2 points ago

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This happened to me when I had my son as well. I was riding the high tide of hormones and went off on the nurses. Fortunately, they were used to irrational women and didn't hold any of the horrible things I said against them.

They did profusely apologize and it was a non-issue after that. Long story short, my son breast fed and absolutely refused a pacifier.

Congrats on the baby!

[–]warrena1 1 point2 points ago

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I planned to breastfeed by daughter before she was born. However, after her birth, she was immediately taken to the NICU. When I saw her for the first time the next morning, she had a pacifier in. And, to top it off, the pacifier had been dipped in sugar water to keep her sucking on it.

For the next ten days, she sucked on the pacifier continuously, and drank 75% of her feedings from bottles, nursing occasionally with a nipple shield. I was convinced that she would never successfully breastfeed.

However, from the day she got out of the NICU, she has been a champion nurser. She is now 10 weeks old, and thriving and putting on weight. Those first ten days of bottles and pacifiers didn't interfere with her ability to breastfeed at all. I totally understand your frustration, but I'm sure your child will go on to happily nurse. Good luck!

[–]theblackness 1 point2 points ago

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I had them take my daughter to the nursery for the first night after I had her, as I was in labor for 38 hours and needed the break! I am an RN, and was VERY specific about wanting to breastfeed and NOT have any pacifiers/bottles/etc., but after a several hour crying spell the following evening we introduced the pacifier. She still does great for me breastfeeding-wise, I have honestly never had a problem with latching on. I know it's frustrating when someone introduces these things without your permission (and I would pass that information along when you fill out the survey for your hospital stay), and I can honestly say that I would have been upset had someone done that to my daughter. Every babe is different, but know that just because they have something that is not the breast within the first month doesn't mean that you are doomed breastfeeding-wise. Good luck, and congrats on your new little one!!

[–]frinh 2 points3 points ago

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I refused to have my babies leave my side for that very reason. I didn't trust anyone else with them. I agree, the lest she could have done is asked.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]interplanetjanet -3 points-2 points ago

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What exactly was so scary about it? It's not like a newborn having a pacifier for a little while is going to harm them or even form a habit. Even the formula isn't going to harm the child.

[–]summernot 2 points3 points ago

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Nipple confusion is generally the worry. That can lead to poor latch and even open wounds for the mom.

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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Nipple confusion is not likely to occur from having a pacifier or bottle in their mouth once. Babies that young simply don't have a long enough memory for that.

[–]ofblankverse 4 points5 points ago

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It has nothing to do with "memory", it has to do with how often the baby satisfies their sucking needs somewhere besides the breast. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends no pacifiers before 4 weeks, because it interferes with breastfeeding.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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When my son was born, my milk didn't come in very quickly, and they had me feed my son formula through a fine tube that I held up to my nipple so he would get nutrients before going home. It's not like they're trying to go against anyone's wishes or harm the child. They just want to see the child go home healthy and properly gaining weight. If the mother has trouble breastfeeding, for whatever reason, and the child starts losing weight once they're home, the baby will stand a much better chance if s/he goes home as much above birth weight as possible.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 2 points3 points ago

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That's not true. Doctors and hospitals expect breastfed babies to lose weight. It's normal. Doctors want to see breastfed babies back at their birth weight by 2 weeks old.

[–]interplanetjanet 0 points1 point ago

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Of course they expect them to lose weight. They all do, but they also want to see them leveling out or gaining as soon as possible.

[–]interplanetjanet -1 points0 points ago

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Yes, of course they expect weight loss. That doesn't mean that they don't want the babies to gain again as quickly as possible.

[–]andersonimes 0 points1 point ago

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Definitely not cool. Happened with our twins. If you worry about nipple confusion, it didn't seem to be a problem, so no worries there.

Nutritionally that formula is definitely not as good as the real thing. I would definitely put on your best "crazy new mom" face and let them know they'd better not put that stuff in your kid again.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]siouxsie_sioux[S] 0 points1 point ago

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It is especially upsetting because you assume this stuff is common knowledge/practice. I felt like the nurse stabbed me in the gut. I'm totally over it now but I will definitely tell pregnant friends and family to make their wishes known in advance. And loudly. Having a baby is not the time to be nice for the sake of going with the flow.

[–]jillrabbit 0 points1 point ago

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Same thing happened to me, I totally didn't have the experience that I wanted. I wanted to breastfeed her right away, but they took her and gave her a bottle. We did end up breastfeeding for almost 18 months though! Good luck, mama and just enjoy your precious baby!

[–]Scubaboy26 0 points1 point ago

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I know this will get downvoted like crazy, but its a bottle and a pacifier...

It might be different for me because my son was in the NICU for 3 weeks and my wife and I didn't care if he had a pacifier or a bottle. In fact he first time we saw him after he was born he had a preemie pacifier in his mouth.

My wife did try to breastfeed but he wouldn't latch.

[–]ADVentive 1 point2 points ago

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The fear is that baby won't latch properly after having had an artificial nipple. Such as exhibited by your experience.

[–]starly 0 points1 point ago

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I have heard that preemies do need to suck to learn howto, but they are mostly not developed enough to breastfeed. So they need a pacifier to learn prerequesite skills for breastfeeding. Also pumping may be more dificult than normal if mom has the added stress of a NICU.

[–]ADVentive 0 points1 point ago

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Link from International Breastfeeding Centre (Dr. Jack Newman), Breastfeeding the Premature Baby

Myth 5. Premature babies need to learn to take a bottle which teaches them how to suck

Well, I don’t know what to say about this. It’s just not true. Premature babies can learn to suck without getting bottles as shown, once again, from experience elsewhere in the world. Too often, mothers and babies are hurried out of hospital with the “advice” that the baby will be discharged earlier if he starts taking a bottle. This is not a way to help the mother and baby. In any case it would not be true that the baby needs a bottle to learn. Kangaroo Mother Care and getting the baby to the breast before the “magic” 34 weeks gestation would do a lot to avoid this situation. Furthermore, as different muscles are used when bottle-feeding vs. breastfeeding, bottle-feeding ‘teaches’ baby poor sucking skills and these can sometimes be extremely difficult to ‘unteach’.

[–]Scubaboy26 0 points1 point ago

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He was latching fine when were in the hospital but when he came home he wouldn't take to it.

And before people start freaking out, my wife pumped for 10 weeks after he came home before she dried up and had to switch to formula,

[–]AuroraMaryAlice 0 points1 point ago

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Really the only way to avoid this at the hospital is to have you or husband with the baby at all times. The nurses change out ever so many hours. Your requests will not carry on to the next shift.

[–]anonoman925 -1 points0 points ago

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I've seen whiteboards up on the wall in rooms that inform the nurses as to the do's and don'ts

[–]gsxr -5 points-4 points ago

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We planned to breast feed my son. Turns out he didn't take to it very well and mom didn't produce much milk for the first few days.

We ended up giving him a few bottles. When mom started producing milk he hopped right on the boob. Don't listen to the "experts" about nipple confusion, it's all bullshit(according to the WONDERFUL lactation lady at the hospital(seriously lady was awesome))

[–]ADVentive 2 points3 points ago

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Nipple confusion and nipple preference is not a myth. It doesn't happen to all babies certainly, maybe not even most. But it does happen to some. And you won't know if your baby is one of them until it's too late.

[–]Whirledpeas1129 2 points3 points ago

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Milk doesn't come in for days. That's normal and how it should be. The colostrum that a mother produces is enough, and babies should and do lose weight until their mothers' milk comes in.

I'm glad your baby didn't have nipple confusion, but that's not the case for all babies.