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[–]Hamakua 99 points100 points ago

Other than demanding a paternity test I don't have much advice for you. It all hinges on whether you would want to involve yourself in your child's life or not. Either way she has poisoned the relationship in such a way that you are trapped into either becoming a slave or becoming an asshole.

Because you two aren't married she holds all the cards over custody. I would involve your parents as much as possible. If you wish to involve yourself in the child's life I would also seek legal advice now. Hell, I would seek it now even if you don't want to involve yourself in your child's life.

You didn't mention your ages.

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/

Father's and families may have some references to legal advice. I would start there. I am sorry to say but you have nothing but an up-hill battle in front of you no matter how this issue breaks. If I were in your situation though I would not trust that girl ever again... the hard part is "cutting off all contact" or being anything less than "a perfect boyfriend" may trigger her into bitch mode and the way the (US, UK, Australian) legal system is set up now, they are backing her far more than they are backing you.

[–]Godspiral 8 points9 points ago*

you (OP) could insist that she pay for a paternity test. She may get offended by both suggestions, and a likely resulting compromise after the drama is that you will either both pay half, or you will pay. The more offended she is by having a paternity test, the greater the likelihood that it may not show you as the father.

In your "negotiations" with her, be prepared to pay and support her in any way for an abortion.

[–]5PK 126 points127 points ago

Honestly, leave her now and get a lawyer. It sounds extreme, but this is totally the RED FLAG you need to foresee future relationship issues. This was a major violation of trust. The lawyer is because you're FUCKED. Also, don't yell and scream if you don't have to, get the lawyer behind her back and be prepared before she is. If its legal in your state, record her saying something incriminating, such as admitting she knowingly stop taking birth control.

[–]Dasweb 46 points47 points ago

Listen to this.

And this may sound harsh, but please don't pussy out and do the stupid BS that most do as say "oh but she loves me".

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points ago

probably the most sound advice

by the way radioshack has a special on high-quality voice recorders right now

[–]AirdustPenlight 1 point2 points ago

I too find RadioShack's competitively-priced, high-quality goods are good for any occasion! Perfect for Christmas or legal battles!

[–]Overlord1317 14 points15 points ago

This isn't a red flag. There were probably red flags along the way. This is the iceberg he hit because he didn't spot those red flags earlier.

[–]In_Armor 13 points14 points ago

and document EVERYTHING from here on out. Keep every receipt, print out records, no matter how trivial.

I'm thinking she did it on purpose to bind you to her.

[–]Joshuages 9 points10 points ago

I agree. He's going to have to pay, but probably only obligations for the child. This was a brutal move on her part.

[–]devmage 5 points6 points ago

If its legal in your state, record her saying something incriminating

Contact a lawyer (which you should be doing anyway) to see if this is legal where you are. Do this before recording, otherwise you run the risk of tainting the evidence against her. Though, yes, do buy a recorder ASAP.

[–]FreddyDeus 62 points63 points ago

[the family planning service] ...told her [to] make her plans on the basis that her potential motherhood would be as single parent. (Seriously WTF?)

This is perfectly reasonable of them, assuming she told them the truth about the circumstances of the conception. If I were in your position, she would no longer be in a relationship with me.

and has at times led to me question our future together

AT TIMES! This should be the only question on your mind, as far as your relationship goes. This is a MASSIVE breach of trust. If she'll do this, she can do anything. I know it's difficult coming to terms with the reality that your partner isn't who you thought she was, and that your relationship isn't what you thought it was. But are you seriosuly going to consign yourself to a future in which you have no fucking idea what will happen next?

Think about this seriously. Don't listen to those sentimentalists who will tell you that this could make your relationship stronger. What will happen is she'll probably continue to behave this way on many levels, and you will fall into the habit of justifying her behaviour the more you continue to invest in the relationship.

You will also probably find yourself harbouring a growing sense of resentment that will do you, and your child no good at all.

And bear in mind, if you marry her, your on a hiding to forking out even more cash, and carrying more heartache and resentment at some point in the future.

Also. DO NOT TAKE HER WORD REGARDING YOUR PATERNITY. It isn't the same here in the UK, but I understand that in the US and other countries, accepting paternity can not be reversed should you later discover that you're not the father.

I genuinely have no idea why somebody would want to bring a child into the world in this way.

It's called 'being a selfish fuck'. This is one of the reasons she would no longer be in a relationship with me.

[–]w0m4nz 3 points4 points ago

This. Specifically the last line. As a female I cant imagine even trying to do this to someone. Its ridiculous, selfish, bitchy, evil, and batshit insane to do. And believe me, girls do this shit on purpose ALL THE TIME. I am ashamed of my gender.

[–]Akarei 2 points3 points ago

Ashamed of certain people of my gender*

Female aswell, can't imagine doing it either.

[–]AirdustPenlight 1 point2 points ago

Don't be. Crazy people are everywhere, we just need to make sure to protect everyone from crazies.

[–]jenzthename 1 point2 points ago*

Super agree that someone stopping the pill and getting pregnant is a selfish decision. And that is why they're counseling her on being a single parent. As well, because men do have the choice to leave, not be involved, etc. So while her choices are part of this situation, she does have to be prepared to do it alone.

I hope for the sake of the child--who did not ask to be born, who is completely dependent on the people in his/her world to be taken care of and to learn what it means to be a human--that OP will not take out illwill toward the mother, on the child. It sucks you're now financially responsible for this person, when you didn't ask to be. But choosing not to be involved is teaching a lesson too. You can be the person that shows the child why lying is wrong, why honesty creates more good than not, etc.

[–]productionx 152 points153 points ago

Lets put everything else aside for right now.

Do you want to be a part of this childs life?

[–]buffalo_pete 37 points38 points ago

Upvote for clarity in a difficult time.

[–]W34PON 7 points8 points ago

I would like this question answered. If yes, PLEASE be the most awesome father you can be.

[–]devmage 155 points156 points ago

she ... insists she wasn't planning to pregnant.

A woman doesn't simply forget to take her birth control for 4-6 months on end, and certainly doesn't forget to tell you about such a thing. She knows precisely what happened here, and is lying to your face. This was a deliberate plan on her part to conceive a child without your knowledge. You are a fool if you believe anything less. Get out now, because she absolutely will continue to abuse you in this manner.

You may have a BPD case on your hands, in which case you're pretty well fucked. In better cases, she's "just" an idiot, "just" a coward, or "just" a liar. In all cases, you deserve better.

Psychiatrist up for her. Lawyer up for yourself (also hit the gym, delete FB, etc.). You have three weeks.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]night_on_the_sun 38 points39 points ago

Before that '20 weeks' you mentioned.

[–]Sarstan 1 point2 points ago

Considering you still have a window to get her to come to her senses, point out that neither of you are financially capable of handling this child. Nor are either of you ready to do so. Expect her to bring up friends that are pregnant. Be ready to play dirty by pointing out how fucked up their lives are. When she gets upset, tell her that you want to be with her, but having a child is only going to drive a wedge between them because of how unprepared you both are.

I am assuming a lot of things (no/small income, still going to school, etc). Plenty of reasons there to NOT have a child. You just need her to get over the "mommy" fantasy and realize it's not all cute and games.

[–]devmage 16 points17 points ago

Yeah, push for her to seek counseling right now. You mention that the family planning people told her to ignore the fuck out of you, so the worst that can happen is that a psychiatrist recommends the same, in which case you're no worse off than current. In a better case, the doctor may contradict the family planners, possibly bringing her back around to some openness to your opinion to terminate the pregnancy. You have three weeks, as night_on_the_sun pointed out, before your 20-week window closes and you are stuck with child support for the next 18 years of your life.

If she felt inclined to hide a pregnancy from you, then she falls somewhere on that spectrum I described above (BPD to idiot/coward/liar). Regardless of whether you decide to stay in the relationship, it would be useful for at least her and a doctor to know what kind of crazy she is. You may pitch to the doctor the idea of seeing both of you in the same session, to air out your side of things. If she's feeding the doctor a tale, then this will at least give the doc more to work with.

My initial advice remains: get out of the relationship, get out of her life, get far, far away. Ignore your emotions for her here. You truly need to be thinking of yourself, because she's betrayed your confidence in a serious, irreparable way. People don't look back on their relationships like, "Oh honey, remember that time that you went off your BC without telling me, and ended up 17 weeks pregnant? Oh ho ho, what a laugh we had."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

If she is twenty weeks, she has three weeks till the pregnancy is arguably viable.

[–]DeepGreen 35 points36 points ago*

Are you an Aussie mate? I have been through exactly this, but with a couple extra complicatoins. Your options are basically Cut and Run or Stay and Fight.

If you are going to cut and run, do it soon. Don't come back. This is huge, leaving behind your friends and family basically forever. I thought about it, but I decided that there was no way I could do it.

If you are going to stand and fight, go and get legal advice. Establish a pattern of consistantly trying to have contact and get access visits as soon as possible.

If you are Australian, be aware of the changes to the family law act that got voted into law this month which removes any penalty for her (or you) lying about violence and drastically lowers the test of evidence to allow her (or your) fears to be counted as actual threats or acts of violence. EG "I am afraid she will run our baby through a band saw as soon as I leave her alone!" must be considered by the court. Remember that this is a two edged sword, and fucking gut her with it if you think she is going to go for this. Seriously, work out exactly how this law works and be ready to use it. I assure you her friends will be telling her how best to use this particular law to beat you to death with, only by her restraint and forbearance might you be spared, as the court is no longer required to impose legal consiquenses on her should she lie to the courts about you being a violent animal.

Edit: Taking the high road and being seen to do the right thing has much legal merit. Should you be interested I direct your attention here which is an expert review of the changes to the legislation and what they mean. WHile I get angry and I have seen men destroyed by self doubt, my experiences with the courts have been fairly positive, just expensive. /Edit

It is best if you can keep her on side. Should she not try bullshit games calling you a child molester or whatever else she thinks may advance her cause, then you can expect every second weekend and some days during the week. Should you continue to fight hard in a year or three you might get more.

you will never get 50% custody unles she concedes that you should have it. None the less, you can be a significant and worthwhile part of your child's life. One day they will turn twelve or fourteen and have more of a say as to where they want to live.

It is in her financial interests to be such a bitch to you that you withdraw contact yet stay in the country. This has happened to a number of my mates. This will ensure that she gets the most possible financial support from you without ever having to share the affections of your child.

It is a long, long hard fight. No one will ever appriciate the sacrafices that you will make to be a part of your childs life. You will be trapped in a relationship with someone you hate, forever. She will have an entire social group to support her, single mothers and her female friends and relitives to pat her on the back and tell her how great she is, how hard she has it and what a deadbeat dad you are.

Do not let your anger and hurt isolate you. You will need all your strength soon enough, and make no mistake my friends (not my family) were the source of my strength.

Start saving money now. Lawyers cost $350 an hour, and you will need a bunch of legal help before this is over.

Many times at night I have lay in bed and thought that getting my ex whacked would only have cost ten or twelve thousand dollars. The hard part would be to live every day forever knowing that I'd done that to my little girl.

[–]PersonalityDisorder 132 points133 points ago

Makes me wish shit like this could be defined as entrapment. Makes me sad that it will never be.

[–]RiffyDivine 51 points52 points ago*

Can't it be? I know this is a huge step but like when someone has aids and doesn't tell the person they are sleeping with can land you in jail. So how is going off the pill for the goal of getting a kid out of you any different?

I know it's not a good logic to go with but still it just doesn't seem fair I guess.

[–]PersonalityDisorder 60 points61 points ago

No because it will always be skewed as the mans fault for not wearing a condom, making sure she's actually taking the pill etc. In situations such as these (and they're getting even more common) everything is the mans fault and responsibility. Even if HE'S the victim.

[–]RiffyDivine 17 points18 points ago

So even if he asks the the girl lies, he will still be at fault?

Well how much does an average person end up paying out for a child they didn't want? I mean at least he can leave and go on with his life, just with a monthly bill.

[–]PersonalityDisorder 21 points22 points ago

To answer your first question. Yes.

The answer to your second question depends on how much he makes. I don't have a percentage ATM but it's usually murder on those that don't make an ass load of money.

[–]RiffyDivine 10 points11 points ago

What happens when you can't afford it then? Do they just pile it up till you can't even do it and then your bankrupt for life?

[–]annjellicle 28 points29 points ago

In my state (Georgia) they suspend his driver's license and put him in jail until he pays, which makes no sense, because if he couldn't pay before, he certainly can't from jail or when he loses his job from being in jail.

[–]Delfishie 4 points5 points ago

That's really counter-productive of Georgia. Don't most states just take it from the person's paycheck?

[–]annjellicle 10 points11 points ago

I guess the assumption is that they are all just jerks that have the money but refuse to hand it over. Again, makes no sense, but that's the only conclusion I can draw from such a silly law.

And it's not some law that's rarely enforced, either. I have the police arrest reports for my county "friended" on facebook, and that comes up at least 3-4 times a month.

Not sure what they are supposed to do at that point. I had a friend whose brother was jailed over this, and he spent 2 months in jail (stuck because he couldn't pay anything from there) and he only got out because his parents ponied up some $2000. That can't be the solution for everyone. (shouldn't have to be for anyone) He wasn't "holding out" on anyone, he really just couldn't afford to pay.

[–]ylca 1 point2 points ago

GA is the king of stupid decisions and i hate it here when i read about the decisions our "leaders" are making.

See the recent hoopla where the xenophobes got their wish and pushed out a ton of immigrant workers. Fast forward a few months and the state is wondering what to do about the fact that one of their major economic staples, crops, are rotting in the fields from lack of manual labor to harvest them.

Great foresight, GA.

[–]rscynn 9 points10 points ago

Or potentially throw you in jail in the US. That makes sense right? I am sure it is much easier to come up with money to pay child support while behind bars.

[–]RiffyDivine 7 points8 points ago

So in short, it makes no sense at all.

[–]PersonalityDisorder 8 points9 points ago

It makes no sense whatsoever. And I don't see it changing anytime soon if ever. Where's the logic in taking a man to court then having him jailed? Oop there I go again with the logic. Hope nobody accuses me of DV.

[–]RiffyDivine 3 points4 points ago

I am just surprised I guess.

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points ago

That depends on whether you can charge for your ass, or just have to give it up for free to stay alive...

Debtor's prisons are supposedly illegal, but not for this, apparently. Sick.

[–]MaunoBrau 20 points21 points ago

Bankruptcy doesn't matter. Child support arrears are not affected by bankruptcy. If you can't pay, you go to jail. In my state, one child is 20% of my income adjusted down based on the visitation I have.

Good luck, OP. All of us here want the system to be different. It is currently very unfair and unjust.

If I were you, I would either forgive her and start preparing for how you are going to be a father and a husband, or I would flee the country. My experience has been that my indentured servitude towards my ex-wife has been hellish on my psyche. I wake up every morning thinking about how horrible and unfair it is. If I didn't love my kids, I would flee.

[–]RiffyDivine 19 points20 points ago

He shouldn't get married if he doesn't love her, that's just going to be worse.

[–]PersonalityDisorder 10 points11 points ago

Especially if she gets sick of him and wants a divorce. Which by the sounds of it she will. Sorry OP but it's true.

Take solice however that there are groups to support you during and after the shit finally hits the fan.

[–]RiffyDivine 6 points7 points ago

I just don't believe in being forced to marry over a kid. Just don't get married or else get one of them marrage contracts.

[–]MaunoBrau 6 points7 points ago

I agree.

Having gone through a divorce, however, I can see two opposite viewpoints about my own relationship with my ex-wife. One, she is lazy, self-entitled, bitchy, vindictive, and I should never have married her. Two, I could have made the marriage and relationship work if I really wanted to. I did want that marriage to work; my parents were married for 34 years until my dad passed away. I wanted that kind of marriage with my first wife. I thought I was powerless to her whims when she wanted a divorce. I wasn't. I could have made it work. It is too difficult to describe this fully in a Reddit comment, and I am not advocating that for OP. I would actually opt for fleeing.

I am saying, though, that, per my experience, I would opt for one of the extremes and go balls out into it. All middle grounds here suck ass. He's in a crap situation, and he has to make some total-life-altering choices very quickly. He needs all the perspectives we can give him so he can make the best overall choice for himself. My perspective may or may not be useful, but there it is.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]skier69 1 point2 points ago

he would still be bringing a child into a really fucked up situation.

[–]Lokilost 2 points3 points ago

You can't pay, you go to jail. Period. It sucks.

[–]RiffyDivine 4 points5 points ago

If it was the other way around does a woman pay it if the father keeps the child?

[–]notacrackheadofficer 5 points6 points ago

NY is 40% after taxes. Oh hell yeah.

[–]Wombat2012 2 points3 points ago

Just a quick question: I've seen a lot of people in r/mensrights referring to child support as perpetual slavery and all that. I have a lot of friends who are children of divorced parents, with their mothers as the primary care giver.

From what I've seen, the mother pays for all incidentals and the cost of general care - utilities, food, birthday parties, clothing, doctor's visits, gas money driving the kid around, school supplies, everything to raise a child. The dad in one (fairly successful) divorced family usually threw down a set amount of like $500 each month - an amount that could easily be surpassed by the mother paying all those other things for the kid. It seems to me that the cost of raising a child was fairly evenly split. Is this not normally the case? I guess what I'm asking is, how is child support calculated, and how often is it so drastic that it's earned the name of "perpetual slavery?"

You might not have these answers, but I'm hoping someone does.

[–]crbiker 1 point2 points ago

ATM would have prevented this.

[–]Uphoria 2 points3 points ago

my friend got divorced a few years ago - they take the income of both of you, find where the child's "support level" should be based on that, and then charge whomever has the least custody. 50/50 custody is the only way to avoid CS payments.

Guy had to fight in court to get 50/50 rights and he STILL pays child support because he makes more than his ex, and the courts claim that the childs quality of life would suffer that way, so He has to pay her money to raise the child because she doesn't have a better job, even when he has to feed, cloth, and shelter the child 50% of the time.

[–]notacrackheadofficer 3 points4 points ago

No. The court just says ''man's fault'' with no explanation at all.

[–]tirceol 3 points4 points ago

I'm going to go cram a couple dozen pills in my girl's mouth. That's what they want, right?

[–]PersonalityDisorder 7 points8 points ago

A pretty brutal way to put it but not too inaccurate IMO.

[–]ThrustVectoring 2 points3 points ago

Yes, you were duped into being a father. Or you weren't of age when the child was conceived. This doesn't matter, because you paying child support is in the best interests of the child.

[–]RiffyDivine 3 points4 points ago

Of age, that reminds me didn't some kid knock up his teacher and his family has to pay child support for the kid?

[–]ThrustVectoring 4 points5 points ago

It's not an exaggeration, courts have actually ruled this way.

[–]RiffyDivine 1 point2 points ago

I believe you, I saw it on the news before. Just can't for the life of me remember when.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 4 points5 points ago*

How is it different? The state doesn't have a huge bureaucratic apparatus set up to extract money from HIV patients. Its not in their best interest to give people outs from paying.
Edit: typo

[–]ItsNotMineISwear 7 points8 points ago

In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.

RTFM on entrapment. Jesus Christ don't just throw out buzzwords that Reddit likes without knowing what they mean.

[–]cuteman 12 points13 points ago

Next potential shocker.... Is the kid yours?

[–]iongantas 11 points12 points ago

Sue for fraud.

[–]devmage 2 points3 points ago

...in the amount of the anticipated child support award! Arrange for it to be payable over the same period!

Money goes in, money goes out, never a missed communication...

[–]frostek 38 points39 points ago

Say you gave away all your money 4-6 months ago without telling her. ;-)

"What? Only you are allowed to make uninformed decisions?"

[–]gentlytakemyskull 30 points31 points ago

This is really terrible to hear. A more extreme version of the rug I had yanked out from under me. "I love you. I want to have a baby. My clock is ticking." Etc. Gets pregnant. Loses fucking mind.

Now I have a beautiful daughter I rarely see, and a third of my income is gone. I will never be able to retire. The ex has no job and refuses to get one. Why should she? She gets free food and nearly 800 dollars a month to do nothing.

Fucking garbage. Shit should be illegal.

[–]In_Armor 1 point2 points ago

This just makes my blood boil. Sorry your in that situation. Hopefully in the future you'll be able to see her at least. Where abouts do you live?

[–]gentlytakemyskull 1 point2 points ago

missouri

[–]dumb_default_reddits 1 point2 points ago

How the fuck does your ex survive without a job and $800/month?

[–]DanX2007 1 point2 points ago

In the midwest it's challenging, but doable. Especially if she gets free food.

Rent can be as low as 350. Food is covered. So all the basic necessities are met. That leaves 450 free for other expenses.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 1 point2 points ago

Why is food covered?

[–]BPhair 44 points45 points ago*

I usually dislike people like Tom Leykis, but he makes a good point with a tactic that he calls a 'Hail Marry'. I'll see if I can find the clip.

Essential you tell her you love her and want to be together with her forever and that you want to have kids with her someday. You tell her all the problems that would happen with having a kid right now, but in a few years you want to have kids. Basically say you want to be with her forever. Then you suggest the abortion, for the good of the relationship. So on and so forth.

If she has an abortion, awesome. You're free and clear. Wait a few months and dump her. If she doesn't, lawyer up, get a paternity test, etc.

Edit: Hindsight is 20/20, but you should consider freezing some sperm and getting a vasectomy while you still have a meager amount of money no matter how this situation plays out. I did it when I was 18 because my parents got pregnant at 21 and let me say it has been quite the smooth sailing since.

[–]APock 22 points23 points ago

Every man on earth should listen to tom leykis. Not when he talks about hail marrys but when he talks about contraception. I listened to most of his shows available online, and I'll be first to say his show is sensationalized as hell, but 2 things stuck with me and should stuck with every man:

"Always use a condom 100% of the time unless you are ready to be a father."

"You are responsible for your own birth control, she is responsible for her's, always assume the other person is not on birth control."

[–]objective_feminist 3 points4 points ago

I will upvote you because I basically said the same thing and encountered the downvote brigade. Both of your points on very important and I wish more men (and women) were taught that. A lot of men think "woohoo birth control pills!" and completely disregard any chance of conception.

[–]jerseykid 5 points6 points ago

I've seen countless friends get pregnant or get their SO pregnant to the point where I will NOT NOT use a condom until I'm married and sure kids are in my plan. Sure it sucks but being in my late 20s and watching women crawl all over themselves because their clock is ticking scares the shit out of me. Should be noted I've never had a healthy romantiv relationship ever.

[–]PorcelainLily 1 point2 points ago

+1 for this. Condoms should always be used unless you are trying for a baby. The argument that it feels better without a condom isn't fair. When I'm on the pill my sex drive dies but I do it to avoid risk. He should be able to deal with a little bit less pleasure for the same cause.

[–]Bobsutan 3 points4 points ago

Completely agree. I was going to suggest the exact same thing.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points ago

This, this, a thousand times this, OP. It's your only hope.

[–]MrSparkle666 5 points6 points ago

This. If a girl manipulates you into a lifetime of wage slavery by lying to you about contraception, you have every right to manipulate her into an abortion. It's low, it's cold, but it's the best solution if you can pull it off.

[–]ghebert001 54 points55 points ago

My advice? If you both discussed children and you clearly expressed your not wanting any, then I say flee the country and start a new life. If you wanted children just not now, don't stay in the relationship unless she is willing to get counselling for her sociopathic behaviour. I don't know if it's the first time she's done something like this, but I can tell you it won't be the last. In other words, "Oh hunny since we have a child we may as well get married...oh now I'm bored of you, I want alimony."

[–]todahawk 51 points52 points ago

Six months ago I would've read your post and gone 'pshaw, leave the country?'

Now I'm at the point where I'd help this dude pack up his shit and take his passport photo.

[–]TheMuslimWorld 40 points41 points ago

I laughed at the idea too before I was in this guy's situation. I should have left the country while I had the chance, but now I'm stuck with her. I even had to post this from a throwaway. I had to delete Facebook because she looks through all my messages if I leave it logged in. OP, girls like this are NOT WORTH IT. Get out, somehow, while you still can.

[–]Leckett 20 points21 points ago

JESUS...

[–]todahawk 10 points11 points ago

I didn't go through a situation quite like you or the OP but I did take both kids and leave my wife after she started abusing the kids. Part of me wishes I would have left the country but I know the kids would have really missed my parents.

But the court system and children's services in particular is beyond repair. It's biased, ineffective, broken and puts children in danger under the mantra of 'family unification'.

My ex-wife did ungodly things to our kids and no one wants to believe this gorgeous little woman is capable of it. I've been told that I've made too big a deal out of what happened and most parts of this system focus on the mother's needs, not the children's. I have a friend who worked earlier in her career for children's services and she eventually quit in disgust. They blindly chase 'family unification' regardless of the situation. She described a case she was involved with that required immediate removal of the children but after the problem parent took a six week parenting class my friend's supervisor wanted the children back in the home. She was shocked and horrified. Obviously none of the core problems or issues had been addressed in that amount of time.

Children's services was beyond negligent in the 'investigation' they did. My 'interview' consisted of the intake worker asking me questions for 10 minutes when I dropped by her office to fill out some forms. On the other hand, she spent hours speaking to my ex. The interviews with the children each lasted 5-10 minutes and never once did the caseworker ask about any of the specific events as described in my complaint. All she did was ask about the kids 'feelings'.

Even with the short version of events the caseworker's stance was 'the kids still need to be with their mother'. WTF for? She'd denied everything and admitted no wrong doing, WTF do they think is going to happen, the abuse will just magically stop? Every book on abuse i've ever read and every therapist i've ever talked to say that when there is abuse going on (and the abuser won't acknowledge wrongdoing) that contact needs to be cut so healing can begin. My ex is an example of that and she has continued to attack and abuse in any way she can, whether its over the phone or during their supervised visits (also a joke that they're considered supervised... the only thing they might prevent is if she pulled out a machete in slow motion and rambled towards the kids making lots of noise).

[–]ghebert001 7 points8 points ago

Nothing cures life's problems like a one way ticket to Mexico!

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]Godspiral 4 points5 points ago

Most countries you'd actually want to live in have extradition agreements with the US

Its my understanding that extradition is limited to criminal matters. Child support is a civil judgement. Even if a jurisdiction allows for jailing fathers who are behind on their support payments, the jailing is still for "civil contempt of court"

[–]DeepGreen 1 point2 points ago

I gather OP is an Australian, given his link to the counciling service. Australa won't extradite over child support. They don't really care, either. Child support is assessed at a percentage of incom, reduced for time spent with the kid. Overseas income doesn't count.

[–]urotsukidoji 15 points16 points ago

First off: I am NOT a lawyer, this is all based on my own recent (and ongoing) experiences with my ex and custody of our daughter in Family Court.

If you are involved in this child's life in a full-on shared parenting role from the get-go, you will never have to pay child support, whether you are in a relationship/living with with the mother or not - the split/percentage of care is how they figure it, here in Australia. Call CSA and ask them, they will be very helpful and are for the most part pretty decent to deal with if you're not trying to be dodgy.

As for the recent changes to the Family Law Act of 1975, you would be very well off to have them explained to you and how they might pertain to you by an actual lawyer, and your local Legal Aid/Family Relationships Centre/Relationships Australia office will be able to advise you on getting some sound, and probably free, legal advice on the subject. Yes, a lot of men's rights groups have concerns about the changes regarding shared parenting and what defines violence in a relationship, but there is still an evidentiary burden placed on the accuser of said violent acts, and really, the Family Courts have seen and heard all manner of manipulative game-playing bullshit, and if there is zero evidence of any violence, false claims get dismissed and the person making false claims gets punished pretty hard for it. The court places the highest regard towards the best outcome for the child, not the desires of either parent (and separated parents were never automatically entitled to equal custody, even under the changes made by the Howard government - common misconception - but equal custody was and is still viewed as the best outcome for many, if not most, situations).

Currently, judges must still at least consider an "equal time" arrangement and, if that is not practicable, then an arrangement in which the children spend "substantial and significant" time with both parents. Basically, what I'm saying is that in my experience, if you want equal time with your child, and you're prepared to do the hard yards with shared parenting, you're going to get it. It doesn't even have to be a big drawn-out thing, if you guys can agree on an amicable, mediated parenting plan arrangement (which will cost you, again, not a penny and is facilitated by lots of different government-funded agencies, but is not legally enforceable). You can easily get a parenting plan laid down as consent orders, which are legally enforceable and will protect you for a long time.

There's a lot of anger in the subreddit, and I think a lot of people here are speaking purely from emotion and not giving you great advice right now. It's an emotional time for you, for sure, but be smart about it, don't walk out (because seriously, abandoning the relationship at this juncture is NOT going to behoove you in court), and try to get some counseling for yourself alone and for both of you together to see where your relationship is going to end up through this. And for the love of all that is holy, don't tell her you went to talk to a lawyer, there's no way she'll take that well if she's already upset and feeling defensive.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 182 points183 points ago

Listen kid. I went through the same thing. Be strong, get your parents to pay her some money to get lost and never, ever, ever speak to her again.

She is untrustworthy and will destroy your life.

[–]danxmason 105 points106 points ago

I don't think that's going to stop 18 years of child support

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]frownykid 6 points7 points ago

Happy cake day have a upvote

[–]ScopeOfTheFatedSky 1 point2 points ago

Depends on the divorce agreement, but that can happen. My dad is still paying child support for me, and will until I turn 23. Glad of it too, because he owes my mom a fuckton of money for the house they bought and all the school debt he accrued and if the state didn't garnish his wages my mom wouldn't get any of the money owed her.

[–]papajohn56 6 points7 points ago

The existence of the "adult-child" is something that really needs to stop.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 39 points40 points ago

Ah yes, perpetual slavery. Forgot about that one. Well, anyway, prepare to pay child support when you have an income. Don't have anything to do with the mother or the child. It's not worth it.

Don't ruin your life for some chick.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 19 points20 points ago

Well, anyway, prepare to pay child support when you have an income.

You have obviously not heard of income imputation...no actual income necessary for that one!

[–]dumb_default_reddits 3 points4 points ago

I have not. I am appalled.

[–]sachmet43 1 point2 points ago

I googled it and still dont understand what it is. Is it the court treating the parent as if they have more income than they actually do?

[–]SHFT 2 points3 points ago

[–]clegg 31 points32 points ago

wtf does the child have anything to do with it? It is a tragic situation, and his gf is a ruthless selfish cunt, but advising the OP never to speak to his own child? Seems a little harsh to me.

[–]SenJunkieEinstein 20 points21 points ago

You can't be a part of the child's life and NOT be a part of ex's life.

[–]clegg 14 points15 points ago

I'd take being a part of my own kid's life over forgetting he ever existed if it meant I'd have to deal with a bit of crazy along the way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

If the custodial parent will allow that. Many ways she can thwart that without any legal recourse.

[–]waterskier2007 4 points5 points ago

Being a part of your child's life should be worth dealing with a little bit of your ex

[–]Elshar 14 points15 points ago

Don't have anything to do with the ... child. It's not worth it.

Wow, that's about as dick move as I've ever seen. You're obviously not a parent if you're so callous with the feelings of an innocent child.

[–]thechort 14 points15 points ago

No, it's better for the child to never see him than to see him every now and again in and out of the kid's life at the whims of his insane mother.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 10 points11 points ago

I am a parent. I've been through the exact thing. I can't do it now, but if I had the guts, I would have done it then. The kid is fucked anyway, with such a retarded mother.

[–]millerbock 1 point2 points ago

please don't listen to this dude's advice....jesus man you're the kind of guy that makes this subreddit look bad, and it's disturbing that you have so many upvotes

[–]meaculpa91 0 points1 point ago

Wow, you're actually ADVISING him to be a deadbeat dad. This is a new one.

[–]on_a_moose 6 points7 points ago

For pregnancy by deception? I have difficulty having a problem with this. Women only pull this shit because they can. Make it so they can't profit by it.

[–]notacrackheadofficer 11 points12 points ago

None of that money would be counted as child support payments.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 2 points3 points ago

This is true. In that case, you're fucked.

[–]notacrackheadofficer 3 points4 points ago

Happened to me!!
I won in the long run. I am the supportive loving parent my child goes to for advice and guidance. Success!!

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]ignatiusloyola 29 points30 points ago

A lot of things drastically change when someone suddenly is faced with being legally forced into a scenario they never wanted...

A woman's right to choose is a good thing, but so is a man's right to choose. But unfortunately that latter one can be taken away by another person.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 16 points17 points ago

If it wasn't clear bud, you need to move fast. Abort, disappear or pay child support. Either way, you are not to have anything to do with this woman again, do you understand me?

[–]mr_znaeb 6 points7 points ago

Run

[–]maxp0wah 5 points6 points ago

Sue

[–]xolieo 24 points25 points ago

Just forget to not put plan b in her pancakes. GG

[–]Alanna 4 points5 points ago

17 weeks is a little late for Plan B.

[–]s0nicfreak 1 point2 points ago

I think you mean RU486.

[–]Alanna 2 points3 points ago

That would make a hell of a lot more sense.

[–]GroundhogExpert 2 points3 points ago

You do have legal rights, if she goes through with the pregnancy she cannot keep you out of the kid's life, and just because you will be in the kid's life does mean that you two will be together. I would make sure she knows exactly what keeping the child to term means. Additionally, you should calmly tell her how you feel that she deceived you, and that this all feels very unfair that she has so much control over your future without even discussing this over with you.

[–]moonbleach 1 point2 points ago

Female here that has been in a similar situation and just a little bit of advice from my experience:

Just wanted to note here, as a female, that if you take a pill once a day every day (just an assumption she was on the pill since it's the most widely used) for YEARS (again assuming you're early to mid twenties and on average girls start HBC in late teens) you don't just suddenly forget for months.

Also, if she's 17 weeks she most likely already knew. Most women have regular periods once they get a little older (HBC makes it even more so) and I could understand if she was only say, 8 weeks that she could blame her cycle being irregular but seventeen weeks and not knowing is yet another red flag; many women also already feel the baby moving around 15-18 weeks.

When you went to the hospital at 2am who was it that wanted to go? If she felt that seriously ill and suggested it herself I'm willing to bet she knew and was afraid she was losing the baby. If you suggested it, did she initially resist the idea?

If she wants the baby there really isn't anything you can do. Again, don't trust the paternity allegations and don't sign the birth certificate until you have had a DNA test to prove that the child is yours. I'm not sure if the laws there are like the ones here, where signing the birth certificate will make you legally liable even if the baby isn't yours.

The biggest decision you face is if you want to be a father or not. Either way, get a lawyer and get her a psych eval ASAP!

[–]sequoia123 4 points5 points ago

Honest question from a gay male, please don't attack. Why don't you always wear a condom?

[–]JimminyBob 2 points3 points ago

As a woman I find this disgusting and deplorable and I'm sorry to say that it is incredibly commonplace (UK perspective). As a person in a trusting and loving relationship I couldn't imagine either of us abusing that position. Individuals using entrapment like this do not deserve the unreserved support of the Justice System. I wish you the best of luck.

[–]beefstick86 10 points11 points ago

Female here- (so I'm prepared for the downvotes)

1.) This bullshit your girlfriend pulled on you, makes me sick. I see women doing this all the time. In fact, I had one girl say "You hold all the cards, if you want to have a baby, just stop taking your pills". WTF?? I cannot believe I had another woman straight up tell me to deceive my boyfriend. I never have, nor will I ever intentionally do something to mess up my relationship with him

2.) There is this "competitiveness" that women have. I'm not sure when it starts, but it gets pretty intense. You've heard that expression "my internal clock is ticking?" Well, it's very true. So true it will make women do crazy things. I should know, I get all the sick twisted thoughts that come with it, I just don't act on it. I cry like a girl instead. But with this competitiveness, we think "oh so and so who is my age has a kid, husband, etc..." and we think that we have nothing to show for ourselves, when obviously we know that's not true. - I'm a 25 year old female who's going to school for engineering and although the thought of having a little minion to call my own is a nice idea, I don't have time, the patience, or the finances to do it. Plus, I like my body too much to have it mangled by a fetus that's going to occupy itself in my womb, like a dirty hippy on Wall street.

3.) What she did was entrapment. I know everyone else is telling you to break ties and just go separate ways, that's not what you want to do. In fact, you want to do the opposite. You will (sorry to say) be paying for the actions of her sick twisted behavior. 17% of your paycheck I believe. But talk it over with your parents, perhaps you can find/prove her to be an unfit mother and take over the custody of the child. I know that may not be an option for you, but I'm sure you could get help from you parents in raising the child. The other thing you should do, and I stress this is of great importance, be a part of your child's life. Even if you hate the mother, do not be absent in the the growth and development of this child. If the mother is truly that mentally unstable, the worst thing you could do is leave your child in her hands and to grow up behaving just like her.

4.)I believe that men should have a say in the "termination" of a fetus just as much as a woman, especially since she lied and trapped you. At the same time, you should have also wore a condom. I know she was on the pill, but if you know anything about us women, we're crazy and do irrational things. Case in point, what you're going through right now.

Right now your life is pretty rough because you've just been lied to, betrayed, and have been involved in a very important life choice without your permission. I can understand that. But in due time you may even enjoy being a parent and appreciate this opportunity.

I hope my words of wisdom helped some. I just wanted to post mostly to prove not all women are psychotic and can live child free. Take care. I hope karma bites her in the ass one day.

Edit: Lawyer up! You cannot be too cautious in a matter like this.

[–]Gothiks 21 points22 points ago

Sounds like rape

[–]girlwriteswhat 24 points25 points ago

Yup. Sex without informed consent is rape.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 10 points11 points ago

He's a man, remember? If-I-squint-and-tilt-my-head-just-the-right-way-it's-rape is only a tool that women can use.

[–]PoisonSoup 1 point2 points ago

Oh, come off it. I'm a feminist and I call this rape any day.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 8 points9 points ago

In addition to being a feminist, are you also a family court judge?

[–]PoisonSoup 5 points6 points ago

Unfortunately no, so I see what you're saying.

[–]Odin-Zifer 1 point2 points ago

Rape: obtaining sex by false pretenses.

OP get some proof that she knowingly stooped taking her birth control with out informing you and go to the cops.

[–]14mit1010 2 points3 points ago

Your choices are

i) Get out of the country

ii) Kill her and dont get caught

iii) Be her slave for the next 18 years

Choose wisely

[–]aetheralloy 2 points3 points ago

Don't worry. /SRS says this pretty much never happens and it's silly to worry about.

[–]DearBurt 2 points3 points ago

... apparently then only discovering that she was pregnant.

So, she didn't notice missing her period for a few months?

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 8 points9 points ago

I would definitely get a paternity test. Other than that I'm sorry dude, but you're totally screwed.

You (unknowingly) impregnated a deceitful, hateful, and selfish woman and you're on the hook for 18+ years of child support. At this point you're going to have to make the best of it. My advice would be to 1. NOT marry her and 2. get a lawyer. Because if you're going to be paying $$$$$ you should also negotiate decent visitation rights.

[–]ApatheticPamp 2 points3 points ago

Best advice yet

[–]Bobsutan 3 points4 points ago

There is a third option, what I like to call scorched earth. Sell everything and move overseas so he's not trapped in 18+ years of slavery.

[–]buffalo_pete 3 points4 points ago

I have no advice, and you shouldn't listen to me anyway, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. There are smart people commenting here, listen to them.

But I wish you the best of luck, token78. You're in my thoughts.

[–]razthecat 3 points4 points ago

get out of the relationship and as far away from that crazy, lying bitch as you can, get a paternity test and a lawyer and hope that it isn't yours.

[–]earthforce_1 8 points9 points ago

I guess the moral of the story is to never trust a woman who may be wanting a child to look after the birth control. If you have even the slightest doubt in her, get a vasectomy (there are reversible kinds) so you are in the clear.

[–]CaptainAbrecan 5 points6 points ago

Wait, there are reversible kinds? Tell me more...

[–]earthforce_1 9 points10 points ago

[–]surfnsound 2 points3 points ago

It's not available in all countries yet.

[–]DeepGreen 7 points8 points ago

The reversal rate is about 70% or something. Even if the reversal fails sperm can still be extracted for use in IVF. IVF is very expensive though, expect to pay thousands of dollars per round for IVF and it could take eight or nine rounds.

There is a much better reversable vasectomy in testing which is an injection into the vasdeferens (sp?) and can be reversed with another injection. It is years away though.

Either get cut or use condoms. Condoms break every now and again so use condoms with a spermacide, which taste horible but give much better protection.

[–]CaptainAbrecan 4 points5 points ago

We need something as simple as 'the pill'. A hormone suppression medication or something. I don't know about anyone else, but rubber goes on I lose it. Not on purpose, it just happens. You put it on, and whoops there goes stiffness. It actually makes using condoms impossible, and believe me, I have tried. Not a lot of people can say that, 'i have tried to use rubbers'.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]erikpdx 2 points3 points ago

Guys run into this problem, too. There are lots of urologists who will refuse to perform vasectomies on young guys. I even heard about one doctor who required the wife's consent to perform the operation.

[–]CaptainAbrecan 1 point2 points ago

That sucks :( I want kids, I just don't want them anytime soon, or with anyone who is friggin insane. Speaking of which, there needs to be a guide to identifying these people, because finding out after you have been dating for a year is inefficient.

[–]DeepGreen 6 points7 points ago

I guess the alternitives are holidng her hand while she gets deopot vera shots every 3 months or an implanon implant, assuming she can use those. You have to watch the doctor give her the shot though.

I would take the reversible-by-injection, no-cut vasectomy in a hot second, were it available to me.

It sucks, mate. The big mistake I made previously was to trust the girl. I don't see any way around it other than taking control of your own reproduction (which is rubbers or the snip) or just trusting her.

If you do get a reversable snip, you should freeze a can of swimmers before you do it. Should the reversal fail, using frozen swimmers is cheaper for IVF.

[–]afrobotics 1 point2 points ago

It's really difficult to effect every single one of your millions of sperm that are refreshed constantly. But I promise you, those drug companies are trying.

[–]taumeson 14 points15 points ago

How about -- never trust a woman to look after the birth control AT ALL?

[–]lebowskiquote 0 points1 point ago*

Some women are trust-able when it comes to this, at least mine is, but I have no idea if this quality is rare or not

edit: I believe the ones downvoting me those who give this subreddit a bad reputation (this is my 1st time here and I feel for the OP) or have been hurt so much they can not trust anyone, man or woman

[–]the_raptor 10 points11 points ago

Exactly. Not using a condom with a girlfriend is begging for surprise pregnancy. Plenty of women suddenly get broody and decide they want children, or think that having a kid will bring them closer together as a couple (in reality it is nearly always the opposite).

OP fucked up and has to pay the price.

[–]thinkforyourself 5 points6 points ago

I was thinking this when he said he had absolutely no say in the matter... who was it that decided to have sex without a condom? Babies can still happen on the pill. Don't get me wrong, it's a shitty situation to be in, one that I definitely could have gotten into many times in my life, I just got lucky.

[–]DeepGreen 1 point2 points ago

You are right. He was so very wrong to have trusted his sexual partner within a serious, monogmous relationship. He deserves to pay and pay and pay.

[–]thinkforyourself 1 point2 points ago

My point isn't that she deceived him by not taking the pill, my point is that a baby could have happened even if she was taking the pill. I agree that there is a big problem with the laws on this subject, but he did have a say in the matter to start with, he chose to have sex with her, didn't he?

[–]NickRausch 7 points8 points ago

Time for the Hail Mary?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]NickRausch 20 points21 points ago

It is an American Football term. The team makes a pass way down range and just kind of hopes someone catches it. Kind of a last ditch effort.

In this context it was based on a strategy from the Tom Leykis show. Someone called in with a similar situation and he told the guy to tell his girlfriend how much he loves her, how much he wants to have a child with her someday, but he just isn't ready right now. Then ask her to have an abortion because they are not ready yet. After the abortion dump her for lying about the birth control.

[–]Dax420 13 points14 points ago

You guys are forgetting the ring. You need to get a cheap $100 ring and "propose" to her, with the condition she get an abortion and you will have a baby after you are married. Engagements have basically no legal weight, but go a long way towards convincing her you want to be with her forever.

[–]hjrdmh 1 point2 points ago

Only tell her you're breaking up because she murdered your unborn child. Ruin her for life.

[–]ghebert001 1 point2 points ago

I don't know if I like this more, or the one where the girl tries to swipe semen out of a guy's condom only to find a burning sensation when tries to inseminate herself courtesy of some habanero sauce the guy put in the condom as a precaution. Apparently there were blood curdling screams involved...I love it when someone gets their just desserts!

[–]tirceol 3 points4 points ago

I like this idea.

[–]MrSparkle666 6 points7 points ago*

Manipulate a girl into having an abortion as a last ditch effort. It comes from a football term which means to throw some ridiculous pass to try to make a touchdown as a last try.

You tell her everything she wants to hear: how much you love her, how you want to have kids some day, how wonderful it will all be in a few years when you have more money, how you don't want to see her go through the struggle of trying to raise a kid so young, that this is the best thing for the relationship. Pull out all the stops. Make her think that this is the best thing for both of you, and that you are doing it together. Then after the abortion, buy her an egg Mc-muffin and dump her, becasue she's a lying bitch and she deserves it.

It might seem horrible, sneaky, and low, but you have to remember that this girl just lied to you in order to rob you of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next 18 years of you life. She deserves no less.

[–]zellyman 2 points3 points ago

I'm American and while I understand the euphemism (an act of desperation), I'm not sure of the actual thing that he considers a hail mary.

[–]jimmy_three_shoes 2 points3 points ago

It's a bait and switch, but to be honest, if she's crazy enough to

A) Stop taking bith control voluntarily and B) Abort the kid because of lies you fill her head with

Do you really think she's going to take the break-up well when you eventually cut her off? She'll cut your dick off, bronze it and use it as a hood ornament on her car.

[–]dumb_default_reddits 1 point2 points ago

Hey, consider NickRausch's idea. It's pretty good.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

Leave the country. You can make a decent living teaching English overseas.

[–]Meevers 2 points3 points ago

This is probably one of the worst things a woman can do and I'd probably just say leave her and it is up to you whether you want to be a part of that childs life or not. It seems like a harsh thing to do but in reality she's decided for you both that it's time to have a child, which is a massive responsibility, even though she knows you're not ready for one or that neither of you can provide everything for it and thus it will create a war between the two of you. Under those circumstances, you should not have a child.

I don't understand what goes through womens heads when they do things like this and I'm one of them. It just seems like an utterly childish and selfish thing to do, like 'I want this NOW so I'm having it no matter what!'. They normally regret it horribly when they stuggle with losing their partners by completely shattering any trust they had for them mixed with the reponsibility of bringing up a child they've not even prepared for, yet they would probably never actually admit it and blame the entire thing on their partners. Women like this are utterly pathetic.

Did you talk about the child aspect before you actually started to have unprotected sex? Even though you might have felt it isn't possible due to birth control I think it's a conversation all couples should have before going down that route - 'what are you going to do if it fails/she forgets?'

[–]mugsnj 3 points4 points ago

and told her make her plans on the basis that her potential motherhood would be as single parent. (Seriously WTF?)

I think the reason for that is that most teenage girls think they're going to stay with their boyfriend forever, and that rarely works out. So she needs to make her decision with the assumption that she won't be with you forever. It sounds like they're guiding her away from keeping the baby, so quit complaining.

[–]Miathermopolis 3 points4 points ago

Your girlfriend is a manipulative cunt. Sorry dude.

[–]GTChessplayer 13 points14 points ago

1) This should be fraud. I agree.

2) You should have put your hedonism aside and kept responsibility over your actions. You left safety in another person's hands and you got burned. Next time, trust nobody but yourself.

[–]girlwriteswhat 15 points16 points ago

It should be rape, and the fraud/extortion factor ups it to aggravated sexual assault. When the guy poked holes in condoms and got his girlfriend pregnant, that was considered rape (no informed consent to unprotected sex), and the intentional injury of the pregnancy turned it into aggravated rape.

[–]bluthru 6 points7 points ago

Read #2 as if you're telling that to a woman who you're prohibiting from having an abortion.

This is why it's a double standard.

[–]Gareth321 1 point2 points ago

How absurdly wrong. If I enter into an agreement in business where we both agree to the terms, then the other party reneges, there are rights of redress. There is no reason right of redress couldn't and shouldn't apply to situations like this. The man has sex with the understanding that she is using birth control. He wouldn't have agreed to the terms otherwise. She reneged. The contract is void. I wouldn't go so far as to call it rape, but I would certainly go so far as to say that any liabilities arising from the encounter are no longer his responsibility.

Also, that was the exact rationale used to prevent women from having abortions. "Don't want babies? Keep your legs together". We get past that, as a society, and I would hope that we could apply the same common sense to men's reproductive rights.

[–]tiggoftigg 1 point2 points ago

Dude, I'm sorry she got you like that. Don't do anything too harsh and remember to try and keep a cool head at all times now. Arguing/fighting is one thing, but don't do anything that can come back to bite you in the bumbum legally. You don't have many rights in the situation, but you don't want to aggravate an already crazy sitch/person. I think the most important thing is not what you can do/can be done, but what it is you want. The ways to go about it may be much clearer after figuring that out.

[–]aaomalley 1 point2 points ago

you are screwed . men aparently have no reproductive rights or sexual agency but having sex with a woman when she thinks you are wearing a condom but arent is sex by false pretenses and many consider it rape

[–]moscova89 1 point2 points ago

...what was her motivation to stop taking the pill?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

She tricked you and used you. She essentially stole the material from you to make her baby.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not even your kid. Tell her to fuck off and find someone you can trust.

[–]sandgoose 1 point2 points ago

I fear your dick may have been stuck in crazy.

Sometimes crazy takes years to reveal itself.

[–]SlimThugga 1 point2 points ago

Lawyer up, lawyer up, lawyer up. Fight for yourself because if you ask me, the relationship is pretty much over. Even if you accept the child, you'll likely somehow be shafted in the long run as she seems to have a knack for taking big decisions without listening to you anyway.

[–]objective_feminist 1 point2 points ago

Leave this lady because she seems absolutely crazy. Seriously, who forgets to take their birth control pills for several months? This was a calculated plan to get pregnant and rope you in, which makes no sense. If she wanted to be a single mother, there are plenty of sperm donors available, but now, she has inexplicably involved you.

She seems nuts, but speak to her one more time. Perhaps hire an arbitrator or therapist to help you make her understand just how much you do not want this.

I had a deadbeat dad. He lived with us until I was 7, but my mom was the sole provider in our household. He left and took most of my mom's savings with him. OP - that is a deadbeat dad. Someone who decides to be a father, then skips out. I would not consider you a bad person if you decide to have nothing to do with this child. If child support becomes an issue, in my area, it is between $300-500 per child, but it depends mostly on your wages. My mom employs one guy who has part of his wages garnished for child support - he pays a whopping $100/per month even though he makes $15/hour.

I understand it sucks to have to think about paying to raise a child you did not want, but this will not end your life. From now on, take responsibility for yourself and always use a condom.

[–]Shuttlecock 1 point2 points ago

Three words motherfucker.

French Foreign Legion.

No, I'm not joking. call whoever you need to and get a french visa and join the legion.

[–]hamchidna 1 point2 points ago

In a situation such as this, if she keeps the child, you aren't going to be the only victim. This subreddit is full of information on how fathers are necessary in a child's life, and you need to decide on what you are going to do for that child. Run away or stay for them. Not for her, not for anyone else...It sucks that you have been put in a situation such as this, but my advice is if you decide to stay for the child, you need to get the best lawyer that you can and try to take your child from the grasp of a manipulative liar.

[–]Bwhite0425 1 point2 points ago

Seriously... as a female, shit like this enrages me (not about you, about her. I should understand more about custody considering my mom was a single parent but you should have the option of not wanting to be in the child's life at all if you don't want to because the option of abortion is still there. It would be all up to her to deal with the consequences of her actions, if she wants to keep the baby and you don't well then she should have to fucking pay for it herself. She has spoiled her relationship with you, I would never trust someone who would do that to me. Good luck and lawyer up as soon as possible. If you do decide to stay with her you should update us all on what you did ect, ect. Hell with it, update us anyway I'm curious as to how this all turns out.

[–]expletive-deleted 1 point2 points ago

Get a paternity test. If she pulled this, there's not telling what else she's been doing.

[–]kronox 1 point2 points ago

This probably won't get seen but I went through the exact same thing and i now have half custody of my child. The best and smarted thing you can do for you AND the child is to lawyer up and IMMEDIATELY sue her for your half of the custody. The courts will look at you as the responsible one. That is what i did (only because i was fortunate to have parents wealthy enough to help me) and the bitch never ever got a single thing she wanted. Her plan was to have me paying support, at this point she owes me like 50 dollars a month... i know it's small but hey if the tables were turned i'd be paying a whole lot more than that every month to a bitch that wouldn't even let me see my kid.

[–]immortalagain 4 points5 points ago

leave her now

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

My advice is get rid of the girl FOREVER.

She's trapping you into a situation you do not want.

You cannot trust her ever.

If you get rid of her now, mebbe she'll get the hint and get an abortion.

The best case scenario in this is that she DOES get an abortion.

The second best would be that you're forced into child support forever.

Yeah, you'll lose the ability to actually SEE the child or have any say in it's upbringing... but considering the case you're in now... it's not like you were actually going to be able to do those really anyway. Mommy knows best as they say.

[–]kaesylvri 3 points4 points ago

Always wear a condom. No matter what the girl says.

You went bareback, now you are financially responsible.

[–]reallyhawtlesbo 2 points3 points ago

As somebody training to be a counselor, giving advice during a 30-minute phone session is highly unethical. You are there to support the client and give her complete autonomy over her decisions--giving advice and opinions is very unethical if the client themselves have not come to their own decision; one can disclose an opinions but only after rapport is established (which would take a few weeks, at least) and only then after repeating that their opinion is not necessarily for the benefit of the client.

If anything in family counseling, it best case practice to try to include all members of the [in this case, potential] family in the decision making and counseling process. What happened is total bullshit and could be ground for malpractice, given certain circumstances.

I am truly sorry for what has happened.

[–]brennanww 2 points3 points ago

under modern laws you be fuuuuuucked son, bullshit OVER 9000!!

[–]TheRealPariah 1 point2 points ago

DO NOT SIGN THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

[–]TheLotusEater 1 point2 points ago

I support a womans autonomy over her body...

You do? Why would you feel that way now that you see the kind of twisted shit that can happen? People say that because it's expected of them, but really no one thinks that it's the right thing to do. Laws governing this kind of thing are so fucking ass backwards these days... as a man, you have no rights... progress!