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[–]groovychick 12 points13 points ago

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I think everyone needs to cut the guy some slack. He comes on here to give an AMA and you guys act like a bunch of dicks. Why don't you ask some intelligent questions so we can all learn a thing or two.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 6 points7 points ago

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I reluctantly signed on here in hopes to diffuse b.s., and separate fact from fiction. Groovychick is on the right track.

[–]SweetKri 5 points6 points ago

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How do you train a killer whale? Is it treat-based? How do whales show affection? Did you develop emotional bonds with the whales, like you would with a pet, or was it just a job?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 6 points7 points ago

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We did not have to train the whales to do what they do, or be what they are. We had to train them to understand us, and what we wanted from them or of them. The whales would always be fed, and were never hungry. Imagine, in an oceanarium setting, a 'Killer Whale' who was driven by hunger. That would be a recipe for disaster.
We did have to 'pair' things with food that otherwise were meaningless to a whale. They respond to the touch of other animals, but maybe not to us. They do, however, understand food as a reinforcer, so a trainer presenting food paired with a pat, a rub, or words and sounds, would eventually condition the animal to understand that all the different stimulus were meant to reinforce or reward the animal. Even people probably would not first know a whisper in the ear, or the touch of a hand could lead to romance, but after a whisper leads to a kiss on more than one occasion, people learn that seemingly meaningless gestures can become in and of themselves pleasurable. So, 'treat based' as you say is just the tip of the iceberg. Treats can be food, or a special kind of food (the whales responded to the occasional HUGE 20-25 lb Salmon brought to them for them to swallow whole), or treats can be a rub on the head, the belly, the tongue. They are reinforced by the singing, dancing, jumping, antics of their trainers, because they can see that what they have done has created an exciting, positive change in their trainer, and in their environment. They eat fish,.... but they feed on fun. Everyone I ever worked with was close to the animals. Some animals preferred specific trainers, some trainers preferred specific animals. We tried to mix it up so that all animals would work with all trainers, but we could barely control our own preferences; how could we ever expect to control theirs??
It was NEVER 'just a job'.

[–]SweetKri 2 points3 points ago

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I totally didn't mean to imply that the whales would be trained by witholding food! That seems like the worst idea of all time...if there's one thing more intimidating than a 12,000 pound untrained whale, it's a pissed off, hungry, mistreated 12,000 pound untrained whale!

It's interesting to me that these animals are presented as "trained" when it seems more like they're just complying because they feel like it!

How did you get into that job? Were you a marine biologist, or an animal behaviorist? And is there a Caesar Milan of whale training?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I did not think you were implying that. If they were hungry, nobody would go near them. They seem to enjoy the fun, the play, the excitement, the interaction with the trainers and the crowds as much as the trainers and spectators enjoy them. Marine Biology has little or nothing to do with animal behavior, or animal training. Sea World seemed to like to hire healthy, ambitious people with athletic abilities and a desire to work with animals. Most of us transferred from within the park, and a few came from outside. Fewer, still, cam e from animal training jobs from outside of Sea World. SW liked to trian trainers in their own brand of animal training, and the less a new trainer knew from past experiences, the easier they were to train. Caesar Milan really impresses me.... but I believe he has an Alpha Male approach, and that would NEVER work with Cetaceans (you will lose that standoff), and is only slightly utilized when working with Pinnipeds and other marine mammals.

[–]SweetKri 1 point2 points ago

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It sounds like an amazing job. May I ask why you don't do this job any longer? Move, another position, pay, a combination of stuff?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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At the time, the pay was horrible. Even now, it is not the greatest, especially considering the risks. So, 'a combination of stuff' as you say pretty much sums it up. The pay is much better now, and the conditions better, too. I know some people who have been at it now for 30+ years!! More power to them!

[–]TweeterReprise 7 points8 points ago

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I heard the trainer's death is now thought to be a conspiracy. Investigators think it was orca-strated. Any truth to this?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I am new to this, so only now do I understand what you meant by 'Troll'. I came hear to talk to people about Killer Whales, not defend myself from you. I am real.... are you?

[–]groovychick 5 points6 points ago

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Is there a way to determine if a killer whale is not acting "right"?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago* 

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There are warning signs when a Killer Whale is becoming aggressive. Sometimes you can see it coming; other times you can't. Body language is everything with Killer Whales. You can judge from body position, head position, eyes, and all the aggressive slaps of flukes and pecs. You are not always lucky enough to see it coming, or be out of reach when things go wild, but one thing is for sure; Killer Whales can kill in the blink of an eye. If they were inherent killers of people (and there is possibly only one verified injury of a surfer in the ocean from a killer whale), then nobody would ever get in a pool with them, and few would pay to go to Sea World or anywhere else where an attack was imminent.

[–]groovychick 1 point2 points ago

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Thanks for answering. When I was a kid, i saw a shamu show where a whale jumped up out of the water and would kiss (or hug...or both, I don't remember) a randomly selected audience member. Do they still do that?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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They did the hugs, and the kisses, with the public for as long as I was there. Now, in the wake of the death last week, I have heard on the news that they 'never' are going to have public contact with the whales again through hugs, kisses, etc. I don't know if 'never' means never, but at least that is what I just heard.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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(and there is possibly only one verified injury of a surfer in the ocean from a killer whale)

Was the surfer incident a "killer whale attacking human" situation, or more of a "killer whale thinks surfboard is a seal" situation?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 2 points3 points ago

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This is not the story I was trying to find about Orcas sinking a boat, but it is a new story to me, and I found it fascinating!!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12830761/A-Killer-Whale-Orcinus-Orca-Attacks-and-Sinks-a-Sailing-Boat

This is the story I wanted to share:

http://www.sheridanhouse.com/reviews/lastvoyageofthelucettereview.html

The true story about a family be stranded at sea for 38 days after a pod of Orcas sink their boat. Incredible.

The Last Voyage of the Lucette By Douglas Robertson

Sailing, April 2006:

"Thirty-two years ago, British sailor Dougal Robertson published a first-hand account of his family's experience on a sailing voyage around the world. This was not however, a recounting of exotic ports and challenging passages. Rather, it described the horror of shipwreck and how six people in one tiny dinghy survived the perils of the open ocean for 38 days.

Robertson's Survive the Savage Sea became a classic and ultimately Hollywood brought the story to the silver screen in 1992 with Robert Ulrich and Ali McGraw playing Robertson and his wife, Lyn.

Still, Robertson believed there was more to share. Before his death in 1991, he asked his eldest son, Douglas, to make sure the family's saga would be told in its entirety.

Enter Douglas Robertson's book. The Last Voyage of the Lucette. Incorporating most of his father's original text, Robertson expands the story scope. Drawing from newspaper articles, discussions with family members, Dougal's notes and his own recollections, he breathes life into every aspect of the Robertson clan journey—physically or emotionally— from their start in Falmouth England, to their eventual rescue by the Japanese ship Toka Maru roughly 300 miles west of Costa Rica.

After struggling with farming for years, Dougal saw an around-the-world voyage as an unparalleled opportunity to educate his four children—Douglas, Anne and twins Neil and Sandy—and to make up for, as he put it, all those cold nights and empty dinner tables, the holidays they never had and the days when we sent them to school in shoes that didn't fit.'

The Robertson's planned their trip for two years. A 50-year old, 43- foot schooner named LUCETTE became the new family home, and they finally cast off the docklines on January 27, 1971.

Part One is an exciting foray into the world of liveaboard cruising as the family sails across the Atlantic to the Windward Islands and the Bahamas, where teenage daughter Anne falls in love and decides not to continue the trip. The pages turn so quickly, it's effortless to follow along as this colorful family sails onward to Jamaica, the Panama Canal—where they take on Welsh traveler Robin to fill Anne's empty place—and the Galapagos.

It all comes to a shocking abrupt halt in the morning hours of June 15, 1972, when Lucette is attacked by a pod of orcas. While all six ultimately reached the life raft safely, they are faced with a daunting situation. They are alone on the Pacific Ocean, five weeks from anyone knowing they are missing, well beyond the shipping lanes and they don't have nearly enough food or water.

Part two is a day-by-day account of the shipwrecked family's time at sea. The Robertson's story is remarkable in that the group of six had to abandon their deflating life raft and survive aboard the tiny dinghy Ednamair during their 38-day odyssey.

'It is essentially Dougal's story,' his son notes. 'For his superhuman efforts in getting us all home in one piece, and for giving us those two short years aboard Lucette, I shall thank him every day of my life.' "

The ENSIGN, June 2005:

“Author Douglas Robertson was only 16 years old when his father, a hard-pressed English dairy farmer and former ship's officer, decided to sell his farm and buy a vessel to sail his family around the world. In 1971, the LUCETTE, a 43-foot wooden schooner, became their home.

They crossed the Atlantic to the Caribbean, passed through the Panama Canal and arrived at the Galapagos Islands. But several days later, killer whales sank the LUCETTE.

Robertson and his family spent the next 16 days aboard their life raft with their dinghy in tow. On the 17th day, the raft sank, forcing the family to cram into their 9-foot dinghy. They endured the close quarters for 22 days until being rescued by a Japanese fishing vessel.

You'll be spellbound as the author recounts how his family overcame disaster and survived when all hope of rescue had vanished.

Although the author's father, Dougal Robertson, already told the same story in Survive the Savage Sea, this new book covers more ground and includes materials based on the memories of all the survivors.

Douglas Robertson eventually became chief officer in the British Merchant Navy but left the sea in 1980 to become an accountant. He now lives with his family in London.”

The Nautical Magazine, April 2005:

"…This book is the story of an epic voyage that went disastrously wrong, is really well-written, and the hardships and the arguments in such a confined space is well documented. How these people survived in such conditions is beyond comprehension. Only after seeing the photograph of the dinghy EDNAMAIR, can it be truly imagined the size of this tiny craft, there was barely room to lie down, let alone take six people. The book of 370 pages consists of many diagrams and photographs. I can only describe it as awesome, a fantastic read and thoroughly recommended. I could not believe what I was reading!”

Royal Naval Sailing Association Journal, Spring 2005:

“The publicity around the RNSA first Whitbread in 1968 prompted the young twin Neil to say: ‘Daddy's a sailor, why don't we sail around the world?’ Daddy, a former chief officer, had left the sea and was now a struggling and disillusioned farmer. The family with four children sold up and bought the 43 foot, 19 ton schooner LUCETTE.

Survive the Savage Sea written by Dougal Robertson, Douglas's father, was published in 1973 and was later made into a film. In the middle of the Pacific, killer whales attacked and sank LUCETTE in minutes. The family survived thirty-eight days living off the sea in a 9 foot dinghy, and ten-man life raft which fell apart after nineteen days. The six of them miraculously survived in the dinghy with a nine inch freeboard, often having to bail for their lives, before a Japanese fishing boat rescued them. Douglas, a former chief officer with the Maersk line, has re-written his father's book which had only established the facts of how they survived. The new book, with previously untold details, gives the reader an insight into the emotional highs and lows experienced during the 18 months of cruising, and the thirty-eight days after the sinking. They survived by catching fish, and turtles which gave them much needed nourishment. Sir Robin Knox-Johnston has written the foreword.

The final classic remark came from the young twin Neil experiencing shipboard boredom on the way home; he missed the excitement of life in the life raft!

This adventure becomes more compelling in the context of father having previously survived his ship being sunk by the Japanese during WWII; and Douglas, as Cadet in his first ship, surviving his second sinking in the Pacific.”

Latitudes & Attitudes, May 2005:

“The author has taken his father's classic book, Survive the Savage Sea, about their family's survival when their boat was sunk by killer whales during a Pacific crossing, and added his own account. He also tells the story of the 18-month voyage through the Atlantic, Caribbean and Panama Canal that preceded the shipwreck. This is a fascinating read.”

Yachting Monthly, February 2005:

“Douglas Robertson, son of Dougal Robertson, who wrote the best selling book, Survive the Savage Sea, describing his family's 38-day ordeal after their yacht sank in the Pacific, has written his own account.

The family's 43 ft. schooner LUCETTE was holed and sunk in 1972 by a pod of killer whales south-west of the Galapagos Islands. Douglas' father, Dougal, mother Lyn, twin brothers Neil and Sandy, and an unsuspecting hitchhiker lived on a semi-inflated liferaft and a 9 ft. dinghy before being picked up by a Japanese trawler.

Douglas' book, The Last Voyage of the LUCETTE, with a foreword by Sir Robin Knox-Johnston, is billed as ‘the full, previously untold story’ of the drama.

Douglas reveals how his father was shipwrecked once before: in a tramp steamer, ‘SS SAGAING, which sank in the Indian Ocean after an attack by Japanese fighter planes during WWII. Just as astonishingly, he tells how he, too, was also shipwrecked in the Pacific as a navigating cadet aboard the oil tanker British Ambassador, sunk following a structural failure.”

Midwest Book Review, November 2005:

"The Last Voyage of The Lucette is the complete and previously untold true story of an event first described by the author's father, Douglas Robertson, in "Survive the Savage Sea." Here, the son interweaves his own perspective - he was eighteen years old at the time - with the original narrative of a harrowing nautical voyage. In January 1971, the Robertson family set sail from England in an attempt to circumnavigate the globe; eighteen months later in the middle of the Pacific, their 43-foot schooner Lucette was holed by killer whales and sank. Four adults and two children survived for 38 days adrift in a survival raft, then a 9-foot dinghy, until a Japanese fishing vessel rescued them. A gripping narrative of survival, and especially, the difficulties of getting along together in extremely cramped quarters and desperate conditions. A handful of black-and-white and color photographs illustrate this amazing story of family togetherness under the most unusual and trying situations."

* For more information, see The Last Voyage of the LUCETTE in our catalog
* For similar titles, please visit the Disaster at Sea page in our catalog. 

* Return to main reviews page. 

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I don't think a Killer Whale would mistake a surfboard for a seal, but the black, shiny wetsuit probably was the culprit. From what I heard, it was one quick bite, leaving holes and cuts, and a quick exit on the part of the whale. I cannot find a detailed account of it online, and only heard the story a time or two years ago.

[–]kristinax 1 point2 points ago

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How long did you work as a trainer? Did you train with any other animals before killer whales?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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They moved us around to different areas of the park. The training techniques and approaches were the same no matter which animals you worked with. In the time I was there, I saw almost every co-worker do a stint in every area of the park. So, I worked for Sea World for 7 years. In that time, I worked with the Bottlenose Dolphins and Pacific White Sided Dolphins, the Sea Lions, Walruses, Malaysian River Otters and North American River Otters, Pseudorcas ('False Killer Whales') and Commerson's Dolphins, and the majority of my time was with the Killer Whales.

[–]kristinax 1 point2 points ago

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What were your favorites to work with?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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'Who is your favorite child' might be the next closest thing to that question. But, in all sincerity, I did prefer to work with the whales.
They are awe inspiring.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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[–]luiohh 2 points3 points ago

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What's your take on the dude who died? What went wrong? What should have been done/not done?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Who was in charge of jacking off the whales?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 3 points4 points ago

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We did semen collection for many years in order to perform artificial insemination.... it proved to be very successful.

[–]hpymondays 2 points3 points ago

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Can you elaborate on how it is done?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 9 points10 points ago

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In the interest of science, I can elaborate.

In the first trials of semen collection, believe it or not, the animals were slow to respond. The trainers were not exactly 'pumped' on the idea, either. We worked out of the view of the public (a lesson we learned the hard way), and tried to probe, persuade, and elicit a response from the whales and dolphins. It was an approach spawned from work with semen collection with bulls and horses. The whales/dolphins were signaled to roll over, present their genital slit (the male's penis, flaccid, lies within the genital slit). Once on his back, he was stroked and stimulated into an erection. The idea was to place an A.V. (artificial vagina) over him, and collect the winnings.
As notorious as whales and dolphins are for their sexuality, the idea of giving it to us took some convincing. The progress was slow, but the climax to the experiments came unexpectedly and suddenly (the jokes and puns are just writing themselves, I know).
The dolphins are 'hung' much like a human. Killer Whales erections were often referred to as 'Pink Floyds' or 'Pink Periscopes' and at 6ft long, were not easily overlooked.

[–]awwnuts 1 point2 points ago

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Do you think it's wrong to keep a massive wild animal, who is used to swimming in the ocean, in a really small tank?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 10 points11 points ago

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There have not been many (if any) killer whales taken from the wild in almost 20 years.

Was it wrong to start collecting them 50 years ago? Maybe. Has the worlds' view of them changed ever since they came into our terrestrial lives? Absolutely.

Sea World and parks like it throughout the world are instrumental in creating awareness of 1000s of animal species, and all animals overall.

The U.S. Navy used Killer Whales as target practice in 1956, killing hundreds of Orcas. There WAS NO Sea World then. To a pilot, under orders, a large black and white Killer Whale made for a challenging target. To them, it was only that; a target.

Today, Killer Whales are synonymous with 'Shamu', dolphins are synonymous with 'Flipper', and if Dinosaurs still walked the earth, they would be synonymous with 'Barney'. With this kind of familiarity and fondness, senseless acts of cruelty will not go unnoticed. A Killer Whale won't be dismissed or discarded as 'just a big fish'. Generations of children and adults have come to know whales, dolphins, sea lions, etc., as incredible Mammals, sharing the earth with us.

The U.S. also killed dolphins by the thousands in their hunt for tuna. Society turned the tables on that practice, too.

We cannot 'give up' on marine parks because of accidents, attacks or deaths. My co-workers and I suffered countless injuries from our jobs. Some were accidents (an animal landing where a trainer should not have been at the time), some were careless mistakes, and some were aggressive attacks by the animals. Yet, those same people continue to dedicate their lives to their profession, in the interest of education, awareness and conservation.

Captive Elephants kill more trainers each year than all other species of captive animals combined. Perhaps that number (or rate) has decreased in recent years, as more and more trainers separate themselves from the threat, and only interact with elephants from behind barriers. Sea World Polar bear trainers never stand nose-to-nose with a polar bear. They only work with the animals through barricades, and from within cages (I understand the trainer is in a cage, much like a shark cage protects divers from the free swimming sharks around). It is almost certain death to stand face-to-face with a Polar Bear. Millions of times through the years in Sea World parks, someone has placed themselves in the water with a killer whale. They did so because they wanted to. They did so because they believed the whale, the trainer, and the audience would all derive enjoyment from the experience. Out of those millions of times, hundreds of accident/incidents/attacks have occurred. Unfortunately, 3 deaths occurred, too. I cannot think of a 4th death anywhere, so that means Tilikum was involved in all 3 trainer deaths that I can remember.

Before the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972, there were numerous cases of people along the Florida Coast (and probably other places) keeping dolphins as pets. They fenced off some beachfront waters, caught a dolphin, and did what they could to care for them. Obviously, without scientific knowledge of their needs, the 'owners' of these pet dolphins led to the sickness and death of animals that were probably dear to their hearts, but outside of their expertise to care for.

The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) changed all that.

Sea World touching peoples' minds and hearts, and creating awareness and compassion, also changed the way the world thinks about animals. Little by little, we WILL do right by the world, I trust.

[–]jacksonapple 1 point2 points ago

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Have you ever worked with this particular whale, 1 on 1?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -2 points-1 points ago

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I won't speak to specifics, as I do not want to be identified. You can read a lot about his history by Googling his name.

[–]roger_sterling 1 point2 points ago

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Was there ever a time when you were legitimately afraid for your or another person's life?

Can you tell us about a time where the whales displayed human-like intelligence?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 2 points3 points ago

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There were plenty of occasions. It was part of the job. And to the second part of that question, 'No', I can't. That would be anthropomorphic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I think he may have wanted you to elaborate on one or two instances. It "being part of the job" doesn't tell us a whole lote.

[–]KarlMarxman 1 point2 points ago

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Well, this is shaping up to be a whale of an IAmA

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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puns are definitely not appropriate for this orcasion

[–]pomegranati 0 points1 point ago

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I understand all of the training with the reinforcements and stuff, but how do you actually teach the animals to do the tricks? How do you get them to understand what you want them to do? Like going under you and lifting you out of the water.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I thought I answered this question for you.... but I don't see my comments, so I'll post again (did it get deleted??).

Before you read or write, you first experience sounds, both hearing them and making them. Before you make sentences, you speak words. Before you speak words, you talk 'baby talk'. So, from the tiniest of stepping stones, you build on the essentials, under elaborate tasks are accomplished. As I mentioned before, Orcas do not need us to show them how to breach, bow, spy hop or anything else. What we need to communicate to them is what we'd like to see them do, and what signal we'd like to use to ask them to perform a behavior. Pavlov showed that dogs would salivate when they sensed food. Naturally, food makes them salivate. It means something to them intrinsically (they never had to learn to salivate when they eat, it just happens). But, only the act of eating will make you salivate, until your body realizes that the smell of food immediately preceding eating means food is near, and salivation starts before the chewing starts. The same can be said for the sight of food, the sight of an animal that is about to become your food, or the sound of a can-opener and the cat food that comes immediately thereafter. So, Pavlov rang a bell, then fed the dogs. Soon, the sound of the bell would elicit the same response as the food did; slobber. So, you sit at the edge of a pool, you place your hand out flat, and touch the tip of a whales 'nose' (the rostrum), you blow a whistle, and you feed the whale. You have now given the whale something is automatically finds reinforcing or rewarding (the food), and you preceded it with 2 neutral stimuli. The sound of the whistle means nothing, and the touch of your hand means nothing, either. But because they both immediately precede the food, the animal associates one with the other, and you have 'paired' a neutral stimulus (hand or whistle) with an eliciting stimulus (food). The food is rewarding, and the touch of the hand becomes rewarding. The point of all this is establishing building blocks. It will quickly become evident to the whale that an outstretched had can lead to that pleasant little 'tweet' and be followed with a treat. Your hand becomes a 'target', and when presented to the animal, the whale will come to your hand, gentle 'target' themselves on your hand with their rostrum, and hear comes the whistle and the food (or other reinforcer). Your hand may be just out of immediate reach, so the whale might move to come to your hand. Now you have started to 'direct' the animal to follow the target. So, a whale 'targets' its head against my left hand, hears the whistle, is presented my right hand and starts to turn its head to 'target' on my other hand. Back and forth like that, and you can see how that could turn into a 'Head shake'. Our hand is now a target, and a float on the end of a pole is conditioned to be a target, too. So, the whale targets to the float, you raise the pole up, the whale brings its head out of the water, and you are 'shaping' the bow or jump that you'd see a dolphin out of a wave. Choose a hand signal (means nothing at first), then try to get the animal to target their body, their body parts, their direction or their attention to the target, and communicate what you want. It becomes a behavior that you can elicit on cue.
So, shake your own head 'No', place your left hand out, then your right, them your left again, and have the animal target to your hands. At first, stop and reward the very first response, and do it consistently. Then, if they respond to the left hand, and you ask them for the right, reinforce them for moving to the second target. You will be able to eventually shake your head 'No' and without presently your 'target' hands, the animal will nod left right left right until they hear you whistle, or say 'Good' or reach out to give them a reinforcing rub.
A baby first learns to roll from its belly to its back, then learns to get on its hands and knees, learns to rock on hand and knees, then crawl, then climb then walk. When a child walks for the firs time, you have to tak their hand to show them that you will help. They quickly learn that an outstretched hand means 'grab here'. Now, if you hand is slightly out of reach, they'll walk to you, and take your hand, if you are across the room, and reach out, they will come to you and take your hand, you climb to the top of the bunk bed, and reach out, and now your child is learning to climb a ladder. People learn virtually everything in 'baby steps'. One successful step compounded on another, and all animals learn progressively.

It might sound to easy, it might sound too hard, or I may have over explained or overcomplicated it. I think I said what I wanted to. I just hope I made sense :-/

[–]pomegranati 0 points1 point ago

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yeah that actually makes sense to me. Because when I was at a show, the whales disobeyed the trainers and decided to swim around instead of performing. So a trainer came out and distracted us by telling us how they train the whales through positive reinforcement, but he was skimping on details about how to get them to learn certain actions.

People train their pets like that too, but I was confused at how you would do to such a big animal. Now I know.

[–]baddna7 0 points1 point ago

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did you watch The Cove and what are your thoughts on Ric O'Barry and his thoughts about dolphins and whales in captivity?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 2 points3 points ago

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I did not see "The Cove", and I don't know the name Ric O'Barry.

The killing of whales and dolphins by the Japanese is horrible. It sickens and saddens me that they continue the slaughter.

By no means would I play the devil's advocate in regards to WHY they slaughter cetaceans, but I have to wonder if the people of India view our slaughter of cows the same way we view Japan's slaughter of cetaceans.

[–]baddna7 0 points1 point ago

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Ric was the the trainer of flipper (five dolphins) in the 60's. he claims that one of the females committed suicide in his arms because of the animals sadness of living in a tank. he explains that dolphins breathing is voluntary and she just stopped breathing and died. he said the next night he was arrested freeing a dolphin and he has been arrested many times since doing the same thing.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 7 points8 points ago

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Sea World and parks like it throughout the world are instrumental in creating awareness of 1000s of animal species, and all animals overall.

The U.S. Navy used Killer Whales as target practice in 1956, killing hundreds of Orcas. There WAS NO Sea World then. To a pilot, under orders, a large black and white Killer Whale made for a challenging target. To them, it was only that; a target.

Today, Killer Whales are synonymous with 'Shamu', dolphins are synonymous with 'Flipper', and if Dinosaurs still walked the earth, they would be synonymous with 'Barney'. With this kind of familiarity and fondness, senseless acts of cruelty will not go unnoticed. A Killer Whale won't be dismissed or discarded as 'just a big fish'. Generations of children and adults have come to know whales, dolphins, sea lions, etc., as incredible Mammals, sharing the earth with us.

The U.S. also killed dolphins by the thousands in their hunt for tuna. Society turned the tables on that practice, too.

We cannot 'give up' on marine parks because of accidents, attacks or deaths. My co-workers and I suffered countless injuries from our jobs. Some were accidents (an animal landing where a trainer should not have been at the time), some were careless mistakes, and some were aggressive attacks by the animals. Yet, those same people continue to dedicate their lives to their profession, in the interest of education, awareness and conservation.

Captive Elephants kill more trainers each year than all other species of captive animals combined. Perhaps that number (or rate) has decreased in recent years, as more and more trainers separate themselves from the threat, and only interact with elephants from behind barriers. Sea World Polar bear trainers never stand nose-to-nose with a polar bear. They only work with the animals through barricades, and from within cages (I understand the trainer is in a cage, much like a shark cage protects divers from the free swimming sharks around). It is almost certain death to stand face-to-face with a Polar Bear. Millions of times through the years in Sea World parks, someone has placed themselves in the water with a killer whale. They did so because they wanted to. They did so because they believed the whale, the trainer, and the audience would all derive enjoyment from the experience. Out of those millions of times, hundreds of accident/incidents/attacks have occurred. Unfortunately, 3 deaths occurred, too. I cannot think of a 4th death anywhere, so that means Tilikum was involved in all 3 trainer deaths that I can remember.

Before the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972, there were numerous cases of people along the Florida Coast (and probably other places) keeping dolphins as pets. They fenced off some beachfront waters, caught a dolphin, and did what they could to care for them. Obviously, without scientific knowledge of their needs, the 'owners' of these pet dolphins led to the sickness and death of animals that were probably dear to their hearts, but outside of their expertise to care for.

The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) changed all that.

Sea World touching peoples' minds and hearts, and creating awareness and compassion, also changed the way the world thinks about animals. Little by little, we WILL do right by the world, I trust.

[–]baddna7 2 points3 points ago

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because of the flack here and the low up-votes i just wanted to say thanks. although i still think captivity is is plain wrong, i do appreciate all the answers.

[–]Mcbaine[!] 0 points1 point ago

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Upvoted for defending yourself and the countless people who passionately work in a sometimes dangerous environment.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Thank you, Mcbaine.

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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I am brand new here and just ran across this on a websearch...so if I already somehow messaged you with some of these questions...sorry!

Okay, SW does a LOT of moving around whales and separating family groups...moms and babies...really early on. My question is, how is that physically accomplished? Why are the moms and babies separated so early? And what are the reactions of the moms, babies, or family members once separated? How do you go about introducing the new whale to the existing group at a facility so that they won't attack him/her? Are the whales allowed to be with each other for company all night?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I never experienced, or heard of, the deliberate separation of moms and babies. A calf is very dependent on its mother for the first year, and becomes more independent after that.

I'll write more later.... long day

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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I guess I mean at a relatively young age...I've read that in the wild they are normally with their moms for a lifetime; in marine parks they are taken away from mom at a very young age...not at birth, for certain, but I'm talking separated at a year, maybe two, and moved to another park....maybe that is so they have a better chance of being accepted by the new group of whales? Or so they will bond better with trainers? I've always wondered if mom or baby showed signs of distress at separation...and yes, felt 'sad' for them, and wondered how it would be physically possible to separate two whales if one of those big guys decided that's not what they wanted. Hey, take your time and get back to me whenever you get a chance, I'm really enjoying reading your posts, appreciate your time and willingness to educate, and have always wanted to talk with somebody that had your experiences and find out the behind the scenes info....like I said, the info people at SeaWorld are robotically trained never to say anything that could ever be construed as negative, and if asked about anything that could be construed as negative, to tell you they had no idea what you were talking about...etc. I think SW does a good job of caring for the whales for the most part (although I do think sometimes they switch around the whales waaaay too much for an animal that forms such strong social bonds) and anyone that doesn't think they care for them well sooooo needs to go and visit Marineland Canada...oh my goodness, it is so awful. Now, I do take issue with SW sending whales there on breeding loans (they've done it) because that facility is SO awful....it really is. I wish Marineland CA would close down or at least get out of orcas and that SW would take all of their whales.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I've always wondered if mom or baby showed signs of distress at separation...and yes, felt 'sad' for them, and wondered how it would be physically possible to separate two whales if one of those big guys decided that's not what they wanted.

Again, if it were up to me, I would never want to see them separated. That is not always the case in the parks, or in nature, either.

Take into consideration the transient pods. They are a collection of bull males, without genetic ties to one-another, that don't stick to a small area/home-base like the resident pods do. The resident pods, by contrast, are mostly (all?) genetically linked/family, and are matricentric. The adult females determine where the resident pods travel, hunt, rest, live and play. You may be born into a resident pod, but you won't necessarily live within it forever. The transient pods, primarily bulls, certainly are not having calves and raising them in their pods.

Hey, take your time and get back to me whenever you get a chance, ....like I said, the info people at SeaWorld are robotically trained never to say anything that could ever be construed as negative

That does not compute..... That does not compute..... That does not compute..... Oh!! Sorry.

(although I do think sometimes they switch around the whales waaaay too much for an animal that forms such strong social bonds) and anyone that doesn't think they care for them well sooooo needs to go and visit Marineland Canada...oh my goodness, it is so awful.

I have been there, a number of times, and it was horrible. It has been some time since I was there, but aerial photos of it now look as though they built-on quite a bit since then.

Sea World had/has a arrangengement with Marineland, Canada whereby whales captured in the wild, or brought to North America from other parks, on several occasions stopped at Marineland first. Sea World had purchased a number of whales from individuals / organizations / or companies who had captured the whales, and sold them to interested buyers (Sea World Parks, Sealand of the Pacific, Vancouver Aquarium, and so on). Some of these animals got to their new homes without delay. Other deliveries were delayed as activist groups tried many different channels to block the import of the whales to Sea World parks, other U.S. parks, or wherever they may have been destined. Marineland served as a staging ground for these whales-in-limbo. When the pressure from the activists cooled down, or when the shell game of shuffle the whale was done, it was difficult for anyone to know which whale came from where, etc. Part of the agreement Sea World had with Marineland was that 2 adult males, and at least one adult female had been brought to Marineland, Canada. Sea World owned them, but could not get them into the U.S. past the activists. They had the legal right and government clearance to bring them in, but tried to stay out of the public eye (the 'public eye' was not the concern, but the activists were). So, the deal went something like 'Hey Marineland, take care of these 2 males, and this female or 2 for us. We'll pay you for room and board, and offer assistance behaviorally, physically, medically, etc., for our whales, and in exchange, we will let you choose one of the males to keep, and we will take the one you don't decide to keep'.

Well, Mother Nature threw in a curve ball, and one of the females became pregnant by one of the males. The calf was born (it took Marineland by surprise, as they did not even know she was pregnant, and Splash, the first male orca ever to be born in and survive in captivity, made history. Now, it came time for Sea World to 'have one male' as arranged, and Baby Splash (not sure at what age) was shipped to Sea World. He was born early 1990, and passed away at SWSD in 2009. He had been troubled medically from very early-on. My dates and facts are pretty solid, but I could be off on a detail or two. That is my story, and I am stickin' to it.

Now, I do take issue with SW sending whales there on breeding loans (they've done it) because that facility is SO awful....it really is. I wish Marineland CA would close down or at least get out of orcas and that SW would take all of their whales.

FYI... Marineland Canada was privately owned (it may still be). The owner at the time I was there, played by his own rules. They had sea lions, seals, whales and dolphins there, but they also had reindeer and buffalo.

Now, being in marine parks for 10 years or more, I have heard people comment about the fish sandwiches at restaurants in the park perhaps being 'slow learners' (meaning of course if a whale could not perform, he went into the fish sandwiches). Of course, that was ridiculous on many levels.

Not necessarily ridiculous at Marineland. In their restaurant, available to staff and guests, were buffalo burgers, supposedly shot at the park by the owner himself. Words cannot describe the injustice.

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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OMG....LOL...That buffalo burger info does NOT surprise me in the slightest!

I do wonder how SW can stand having their million dollar whales at that facility...if MLNF is receiving help from SeaWorld in caring for these whales, SW ought to step it up a bit and insist on better conditions. i think the problem is that the owner of ML would sell his own mother for a buck...when he gets moremoney in, it isn't going back into the facility. Honestly while there in the marine mammal portion, and speaking with the staff, one gets this odd feeling that the whales there are his personal pets and that you are viewing his personal menagerie of pets...one also gets the feeling that for this 'park', the 70's never truly stopped...

I am just amazed that SW would allow 'their' whales to be kept in a health-threatening situation like MLNF, but maybe this is preferable to dealing with activists.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=&mkt=en-US&FORM=BYFD

I don't know how well that link will work, but give it a try. You can zoom in, too, and 'walk around' MLNF a bit. The pool at the top is the whale stadium. The two pools lower in the photo (zoom it tight for a better look) have been added since I was there last. The bottom one looks like a bunch of dolphins. The middle pool looks like killer whales.

To call the place 70s is flattering. Marineland in Los Angeles County opened in 1954, and I think it was much better built than Niagara Falls that opened 12 years later in 1966. SWSD got off to a rough start when it opened in 1964 with a tiny pool for the whales, but quickly built a million gallon facility with large, deep pools as soon as the need became obvious. The current 6 million gallon facility opened in 1987.

MLNF is stuck in the 50s in many ways, and stuck in the dark ages in many others.

I don't know of any current arrangements or deals between SWSD and MLNF. The whales that were 'white washed' there as you so cleverly put it, were laundered nearly 20 years ago.

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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Canadians say it is an embarrassment to them. One of those pools you're seeing on this map was for beluga whales...they've got a LOT of them at MLNF...like a crazy amount. The whales I touched in 2000 are all since long dead, and other whales born and dead there since...lots of calves born that live a year or so at best and then die at that place. I really don't know how that guy can afford to keep that place going...there can't be many return visitors.

When I was there, one of the attendants (this wasn't a trainer...although he was one of the people 'whale-side' during the feeding sessions, but his goal was more of selling the experience...he told me he had been there as long as John Holler had been there...JH is the owner of MLNF) told me that the females are only interested in the male for breeding, and once they're bred they really don't have any interest in him and that's why he was separated off on his own. I didn't buy that....does that sound accurate to you?

When I was a really little girl and we still had SeaWorld in OH, I can remember that you could walk right up to the edge of the whale tanks and look down in...but the whales usually didn't like to get close all that close to the edges. A few years later, they had removeable gate portions up so that you couldn't get all that close to the edges...but I think I remember in the early days the 'info-people' walking around telling you to 'pet the water' and the whales would approach if they wanted contact...was that something ever allowed where you worked, and if so, didn't that scare you to death as a trainer, trying to keep both your whales and the people safe? This was way back before the days of the gorgeous dolphin petting/feeding areas they have now...back then they had dolphins mixed in with beluga whales underneath a big shade tent type thing in a pretty boring straight up concrete tank type set-up....

Also, when you left SW as a whale trainer, didn't you really miss the whales terribly? It's such a bond...wasn't it equally hard for you (and whales) when they were transferred to another park? Or do the whales/people really get all that attached...?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I did know the owner's name, I just wasn't going to write it.... I think you used one too many 'L's in it, though.

SWSD did have killer whales in the petting pool at one time. Not sure why.

We never let people touch the whales, or even put their hands in the water when there was no animal for hundreds of feet. 30,000 or more guests going through there in a day is a lot of sticky, icky fingers. No sense in allowing all that gunk in the pools, and besides, people did stupid things like scoop a souvenir margarita glass in the water to check out the water, only to break the glass on the edge of the pool. Now, we had to go searching for a needle in a haystack, and retrieve the broken glass. They'd also hang crystals in the water in an effort to 'communicate' with the dophins and whales.

If JH told you the females only wanted the males for a good time, not a long time, he was pulling your peduncle.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I guess I mean at a relatively young age...I've read that in the wild they are no........not at birth, for certain, but I'm talking separated at a year, maybe two, and moved to another park

The first "Mother and Baby Shamu" Kalina and Katina at Sea World Orlando (SWO) were together from birth for several years. If I understand correctly, they may never have been separated (except from one pool to the next at SWO just for training or shows when not all 7 or so whales are needed).

Wikipedia is quoted to say... "Katina only lives with two of her six calves (Kalina and Nalani) and one of her grandchildren (Trua). She is always with her calf, but is also with Takara and Trua quite often up until Takara was transferred to SeaWorld San Antonio. A new female named Kayla arrived in Orlando recently from SeaWorld San Antonio. She has been introduced to Katina, and the two have recently been spending time together. [2] There are currently rumours that Katina is pregnant again."

Wikipedia also says "A male named Tilikum came to SeaWorld in January of 1992. It wasn't long before Katina was pregnant again. She gave birth to her first son on September 9, 1993; the calf was named Taku. Just a few months prior to Taku's birth, Katina's first-born calf Kalina gave birth to her first calf, Keet, on February 2, 1993, thus making Katina a grandmother. Keet was born in SeaWorld San Antonio, where Kalina resided at the time.

So, at least between her birth in 1985, and now, Kalina (Baby Shamu I) and Katina (her mom) were apart for some time.

"In early 1987, an adult male Orca named Kanduke arrived in Orlando. He and Katina soon mated. Katina bore her second calf on November 4, 1988. It was another female named Katerina. In early 1991, and at a very early age, Katerina was transferred out of Orlando. Katina would never see her daughter again. Katerina died on May 5, 1999 at SeaWorld San Antonio in Texas at 10.5 years of age."

So, in this case, Katina was at SWO, Kalina was, too, and Kalina's daughter Katarina went to SWSA (San Antonio) when she was 3 years old. The animal's health, curators, the corporation, and many other factors went into moving animals when/where/if/and why. Separating moms and calves was obviously done, and I can't say I agree with any of the moves. I don't see any good reason for them.

maybe that is so they have a better chance of being accepted by the new group of whales? Or so they will bond better with trainers? I've always wondered if mom or baby showed signs of distress at separation...and yes, felt 'sad' for them

The youngest whales do tend to mix best and adapt best with trainers and other animals. Most of the whales collected (a Sea World eupemism for captured) from the wild were 2 years old or so. At that age, they are not strongly dependent on mother, they are not nursing, they are not massive to collect or transport. Sea World did not do the capture of Orcas in the wild, but they did purchase the whales. The captors selected 2 year olds, and did not take bulls or dominant or adult females. The social hierarchy of an Orca Pod is said to be Matricentric (centered upon the mother). Taking a dominant female from a pod could leave the pod without leadership. Taking the bull from a pod would be difficult (mainly due to his size), and unwise due to his function as a mating male. A 2 year old male would have been an excellent candidate, but the female Orcas seemed to be far more common.

(I'll tell you more later..... You have a lot of good questions to answer).

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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LOL Well thanks for your replies, I'll definitely be checking back and reading and re-reading. Actually, I've got a lot of other questions to add, I'm just holding back on you not to overwhelm you all at once.

But real quickly...let me ask what you think of Marineland's policy of allowing guests to touch/feed the whales for years....when I was there I certainly did it because I thought it was a once in a lifetime opportunity, knowing full well SW back in the states would NEVER allow such a thing...but I just kept wondering how in the world their insurance liability allowed for such a thing! When I was there they had Neocia, Kandu, a baby named Hudson, and someone else....poor things...it was horrid. How would their insurance company allow such a thing?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Marineland is a bad example when it comes to how things are done, how they should be done, or if they should be done.

The owner (could very well be the same guy now) played by his own rules. Maybe the insurance is not as stringent in Canada, but aside from that, thousands of strange fingers each year would probably not do great things for a whale. HOWEVER, if that's what the whale was accustomed to, then they could become completely desensitized to it, and it may make it easier and easier to handle the whale safely, under the most varied of conditions.

The trainers in Sea World parks would often end the show with a whale in the slideout, and place a volunteer child onto the whales back. Granted, it would not have been an unpredictable whale in the slideout, or one whose temperament was volatile, but there was always some degree of risk, and the trainer was always supposed to stay focused on 'grab that child in a heartbeat if the whale so much as hiccups'. Once a 8 or 19 thousand pound whale is slid-out into 6 inches of water on their bellies, there flexibility and lightning fast agility is hindered tremendously.

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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It IS that same guy that has had Marineland all these years, it is still privately owned by him, and as for the whales' reactions at being touched, one could tell they didn't like it...they actually would try to shy away and the trainers at each whale would coax their head back...you could tell that if it weren't for the fish and the trainer with them there would be no way they would be interested in having you touch them...poor things were probably sick to death of it. From what I hear, they don't have that any longer...I was there in 2000, I think. They did have one male...I think his name was Kandu...anyway, he was absolutely HUGE...or maybe he looked that way because the pool he was in was ridiculously small....but he never participated in the touch sessions...in fact they had one trainer whose sole purpose seemed to be to distract him entirely from coming over to the people during the touch sessions...they just fed him fish after fish and kept him on the other side of the pool. I asked a teenage worker why that was...the kid smiled and whispered to me..."It's because he is an ASS...!" So maybe he had some temperament issues himself. Although who could blame him, really.

Marineland also had a whale named 'Junior' that nobody purchased...they kept it in a tank in a warehouse...no natural light...just industrial fans overhead, whale all alone...it died in there...now, this is just from digging around on the 'net, but at that facility...I'd believe it!

With that facility in Antibes France (which from photos LOOKS absolutely HUGE and very nice...and from what I understand, it houses SW whales...or...one time SW whales...) , and Loro Parque in Spain, it would be nice if SW could 'whitewash' their whales somewhere other than Marineland CA. Can't be all that cost effective for them...the mortality rate at Marineland is absurd...but then again it seems like they always are having babies...just that they never live for more than a year or so IF that....

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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You are right about the huge male at Marineland Niagara Falls Canada (MNFC). You are also absolutely correct about Junior. Junior lived in an indoor pool, directly behind the public stage and pool, on the right side as you face the stage. The pool was smaller than the outdoor main pool, and larger than the side pools out front. No natural light, no rain, wind, snow or stimulation. I saw him there, many times, but did not know he had passed. He was one of the two whales on the 'prolonged stopover' originally bound for SWSD. I do not recall the large male's name, but the 2 females were Nootka and Kandu. Kandu was mother to Splash. MNFC is a disgrace. Mostly because of the owner.

[–]sacredsam 0 points1 point ago

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Was that big male at MNFC known to have a nasty personality with people? The marineland folks made darned sure he never came near people during the touch/feeding sessions with the other whales. This guy was monstrous huge, but bless him, it was all he could do to just kind of float there in one spot with his top out of the water.

This stuff about Junior and which whales lived or died where is all over the internet...it's just impossible to keep track because so many whales have been transferred, died, bred, etc.

When these whales were transferred to the other parks, how were they 'introduced' to the other whales? I can't imagine they just put them in the water and let the other guys in to meet him/her...

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Shaping: Selective reinforcement of successive approximations.

If you are to introduce animals together, neighbors together, it should be slowly, progressively, and gradually. You are right, you don't just drop them in, throw open all the gates, and wait to see who comes out as king of the mountain.

Allow me to copy and paste a looooong story I wrote yesterday:
(something tells me you won't object)

Let me tell you a couple things I remember. Some may differ from the info you posted.
Kenau, Kandu V (as you called her) and Knootka were all living at Sea World San Diego (SWSD). They lived there until the completion of the new and current Shamu Stadium. Kenau, Kandu and Knootka lived with Winston in the 'old stadium' until he passed April 28, 1986. The two dominant females, Kenau and Kandu, both Icelandic, ruled the roost. Knootka, from the 'misfit pod' was a large, Pacific female, who had been collected from a 'misfit pod' including an orca with a severely deformed melon (possibly due to a collision with a large rock or hull), and an Albino Orca. Only Knootka came to Sea World (after a number of other homes). Kenau, Kandu and Knootka were joined in the old stadium by Orky and Corky from Marineland January 1987 (as you documented). Kandu and Kenau were kept away from Orky and Corky in the last few months at Old Shamu Stadium. Only Knootka was mixed with Orky and Corky at times, and with Kenau and Kandu at other times. Kenau and Kandu were far too dominant and aggressive to place with Corky.
For shows, Kenau, Kandu and Knootka were displayed together, and Orky and Corky came out separately. Sometimes at night, Kenau and Kandu were left in the show pool, and Orky, Corky and Knootka were in the back pools. Kenau and Kandu ('The Girls') were at the gates constantly, vocalizing, gazing and bumping the gate. Whether Knootka was in the back with Orky/Corky or not, 'the Girls' watched the new kids on the block constantly through the gates. They were possibly trying to assert dominance over Corky, or establish the heirarchy in general, and also seemed interested in a possible mate, Orky.
It was not until the new stadium opened at the beginning of the Summer Season 1987, that all 5 whales were transferred to the 'New Shamu Stadium', and for the first time ever, all 5 whales swam together. The pool was supposed to be completed days or possibly weeks earlier, and the transfer within the park was supposed to have been completed, too. The Sea World employee party was supposed to have a Shamu show showcasing the whales in their new stadium and the new show (before any public show had ever been performed there). Instead, through the evening, the whales were brought across the park, lowered into the new stadium, and all the gates were opened so the whales could explore their new surroundings, and mix with their new roommates. There was NO SHOW that night, because as soon as the whales mixed, all 6 million gallons of water churned and churned for what seemed like hours. Lots of fast, hard swimming and breathing, lots of mixing and mingling, but little or no obvious aggression. It was far better a show than we could have ever put on ourselves. It was beautiful to see them all together. Order and control were established in days to come, and separations, shows and training was achieved. Kahana and Kasatka had moved between Ohio and Florida seasonally for a number of years. When Ohio closed after each Summer, Kahana and Kasatka would Winter in Florida. End of Summer 1987 was different. Kahana and Kasatka came to SWSD, and joined the crew there. Now that Orky/Corky, Knootka, Kandu and Kenau were 'used to' each other, the 5 of them mixing was not a concern. When Kahana and Kasatka came to SWSD in the Fall of 1987, all 7 whales were not mixed freely. Knootka was by far the largest of the females, but easily dominated by all 4 Icelandic females. Corky was very passive, so Knootka, Orky and Corky were almost without aggression toward each other. Kenau and Kandu 'The Girls' would often displace Knootka when alone with her, or certainly when mixed with Orky and Corky. 'The Girls' mixed beautifully with Kahana and Kasatka, as they were all teenage, female, Icelandic Orcas.
However, Kenau and Kandu were left separated from Orky and Corky for awhile, and initially left apart when unobserved (or 'unsupervised' overnight). This seemed to drive 'The Girls' into a frenzy. We achieved a separation one night as we left, with Orky, Corky, Knootka, Kahana and Kasatka in the front pool, and 'The Girls' in the back pool. 'The Girls' were really no threat to each other, but chasing after Orky all night (lookin' for love?), displacing or dominating Corky and/or Knootka, and teaching Kahana and Kasatka 'bad habits' was not desirable.... at least that was the human plan. As we left, 'The Girls' vocalized, kicked up a fuss, raced, chased and splashed up a storm of jealousy or anxiety over the party in the front pool to which they were not invited. One of the two slid over a wall that was designed to allow whales to slide over one way, but not the other. How silly we were. One of 'The Girls' proved human engineering was flawed, and once one had 'scaled the wall', the other of the Kenau/Kandu team REALLY went nuts. Now SHE was the only whale in the back, and did not have the nerve to scale that same 'one way wall'. So, we opened all the gates, and left them in a bubbling, frothing pool of salt water all night long for them to 'work it out'. The human plan was rewritten by 'The Girls', and what we had hoped to accomplish through successive approximations over weeks or months, was fast-tracked by a couple wild teenagers from Iceland in the blink of an eye. Hell, what did WE know as far as their socialization was concerned? They worked it out naturally. So now we had Kenau, Kandu, Knoota, Orky, Corky, Kahana and Kasatka all together in shows, overnight, and relatively mellow.

Unless there is more than one Kasatka, you and I are talking about the same whale, but you have her placed from Ohio to Florida, and skipped the San Diego part.
Kahana and Kasatka were mirror images of each other. Kasatka had a couple missing teeth, as you mentioned, and a dorsal that leaned slightly to one side. Kahana had the opposite lean to her dorsal, a perfect set of teeth, and an overall lovable demeanor. Because of her great smile and her great attitude, Kahana was also consider a 'honey of a whale' (a play on her name, and a reflection of her personality). It helped us to reinforce our recognition of the whales with little clues to their identities.
I did not see anything about Kandu or Kenau in your bios. Kandu had a slight crescent shape to her dorsal, like a can opener. Her dorsal also was straight up, unlike Kahana or Kasatka. So, at a quick glance, we knew Kandu's can opener shaped dorsal was the one popping out of the water, whether she was up to something or not. She was a beautiful whale, or course. She was missing a couple front teeth, reportedly front biting the stage during labor from previous births. Her proportions, anatomy and attributes were textbook Orca.
Kenau was the same length, weight and size/shape as Kandu, but she had perfect teeth. She was a little more aggressive than Kandu, and seemed to favor female trainers. Kenau was 'picture perfect', so any publicity shot showing an open mouth featured Kenau. Her dorsal was no taller than Kandu's, and not nearly as tall as Corky's, but Kenau's was beautiful in that it had a curved leading edge, but an arrow straight trailing edge at a 90 degree angle to her back. An easy way to distinguish her at a glance. Additionally, her eye patch was proportionately much larger than her otherwise twin Kandu. She seemed to have an eye patch nearly twice the size of an animal her size. That also made for a stunning sight. On a side note, Knootka was an anomaly. She was large (as the Pacific whales tend to be), but had a bulbous head, and recessed eyes. The Icelandic-4 all had slim, long bodies, and eyes that popped out from their bodies (much like a frog's eyes do). Knootka eyes were recessed, much like buttons on a cushion. Her appearance compared to the Icelandics' was a bit like a Down's Syndrome human compared to a human without Down's. She had a checkered past, and had been in at least 2 parks before going to SWSD. She had fabulous teeth, too, and a sickle shaped dorsal like that you would see on others, but she was scaled up in all ways over the typical appearance of an orca, and very round in the face and head (more exaggerated and overstated a face then even Corky, and Corky has a more prominent face than that of the Icelandics).

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -1 points0 points ago

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No, I did not know that. It is obvious, though, that they are not the only ones who hate it. Sea World always referred to them as Killer Whales, and when in Rome.... It's a habit. It is also their common name. Now that I think about it, I believe it could have been done as a conscious effort to disassociate 'Shamu' from the movie 'Orca'. Shamu is an Orca, and an Orca is a Killer Whale, but it would have been a little bit like having a Great White Shark on display, and calling it 'Jaws'. We want(ed) people to appreciate the whales (there, you forced me to use another euphemism) for their true nature, not the fiction they saw in the movie 'Orca'. On a side note, 'Orca' used models, miniatures and other effects to film the whale shots, and for the most realistic shots, they used Corky at Marineland, CA, for the high jumps and maybe other shots. She has been in SWSD since 1987, but she and Orky (and Marineland) were featured in many Films and TV shows in the 20 years leading up to Marineland closing in 1987.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Can you please verify this with a mod? :-)

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Yes, I will. I am waiting for their response and direction now.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Done.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Thank you!

[–]shimmishimicocopop 0 points1 point ago

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How long did it take you to get used to being in the water with the whales? Were you afraid the first time?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I was not afraid the first time. When we were first allowed in the water with the whales, we were not in control of the animal. You were a 'prop' in the water. You were part of the behavior or part of the show. The animal was not listening to you, they were using you as part of the action. One trainer worked with the whale, and they would 'point' them to you. You might have your feet extended to the whale, and the whale knew to push your feet with tip of his closed mouth (hopefully). Once they pushed you around by the feet, they would hear a whistle from the trainer who sent them, they would stop pushing, and return to the trainer for reinforcement of some type (food, fun, affection). Only once you 'learned the ropes' better would you control the whale yourself. It was your way of 'getting your feet wet', learning the physical part of the job, all while the bonding and relationship building was occurring. Also, when you first start, maybe you weren't wise enough or experienced enough to know the potential for problems. As we all know, things can change quickly in this environment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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How much was the pay? Favorite/worst thing about the job? Typical day?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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The pay was not the greatest, but the job was. The worst thing about the job WAS the pay. Nobody did it for the money, and we proved that every time we counted our coins on payday. There never were 'typical days' and that was part of the allure of the job. Everyday was different, everyday was challenging, everyday was good, honest hard work, and lots of cleaning. We saw births, we suffered losses, and we were surrounded by caring co-workers, adoring animal fans/park guests, and got to experience the unimaginable rush of working closely with killer whales and all other species at Sea World.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Sounds awesome, about what I would have expected. Thanks.

[–]shimmishimicocopop 0 points1 point ago

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What do you think happened yesterday? What is your take on the situation? Trainers fault? Whale's fault?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Tilikum was involved in the first-ever death of a trainer by a killer whale. That was said to be an accident. They used props, toys, and other floaties in the pool with him as a game, but never entered the water with him. When the trainer fell into the pool (1991 Victoria, B.C.) Tilikum may have mistakenly played with her, and accidentally drowned her. You can easily Google about this and get more info on his history, but some animals are compatible with trainers in the water, and others are not. No rhyme or reason as to why. You certainly cannot blame the trainer in this case, and you cannot think for the whale. Tragic and sad is the only conclusion anyone can draw.

[–]pbhj 1 point2 points ago

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What about Tilikum's second human killing?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 4 points5 points ago

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In 1999, a man entered the park after closing. He either hid in the park, or snuck in after closing. What happened next is unclear, but he was found the next day, dead, naked and with a high blood alcohol level. Tilikum was carrying the man around on his back. You might speculate he was dumb, and decided skinny dipping with a killer whale would be fun. The official autopsy declared it death by hypothermia. He was said to have scratches and bruises from Tilikum, but died from hypothermia.
Tilikum only ever had toys in the water with him; not people. From the bruises and scratches, you might deduce that he was a little rough with the intruder, and used him as a toy, but he did not attack him, and did not drown him. The pool temperature is typically 55F, and that is a shock to your system even when you are sober. Since he was already drunk, his defenses would be down, his circulation slowed, and the cold would have quickly set into his core. Tilikum likely pushed him, nudged him, carried him around a little, and raked him with his teeth (that is the only way he could 'scratch' the intruder).
Even under other circumstances, with any other killer whales, an 'outsider' entering the water would likely be pushed around, or attacked, if they took an unauthorized, unsupervised swim with the whales. The trainers do have a rapport with the animals, and their interactions are not always without incident. The whales would not likely perceive an intruder as a threat, but if the intruder did not perceive the whale as a threat, they would be sadly mistaken. The most experienced of trainers in one park would not likely just 'jump in' and start performing in shows with animals he never worked with before, or had not worked with in months. The working/caring relationship has to be established and/or reestablished before safe, predictable and rewarding interactions are to occur. All this being said, though, Tilikum's actions with Dawn were reportedly aggressive and violent, and were not perceived as 'play' by many witnesses. In lots of incidents with whales and trainers, the aggression is pushing, dunking, head butting, holding in the jaws. These aggressions are dangerous and terrifying to a trainer, but clearly very delicate compared to the instant devastation the whales are capable of exerting.

[–]skippypeanutbutter 0 points1 point ago

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How did you get a job like that? Did you ever have any problems? Did you ever witness an accident?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I worked in the park, in another department, and applied for a transfer. At that time, most of the trainers were hired from within the park. Since you were already established as an employee, and knew the park, it was a big advantage. Someone applying from outside the park still needed to meet the same criteria we did. We had to be able to swim well, speak well, be physically fit, willing and able to learn, and ready to work hard. Scuba certification was helpful. Trainers who had come from other parks, zoos, or had trained dogs or horses may have had experience, but Sea World wanted to train you how to train, not retrain you from what habits and approaches you may already have. So, the previous experience could really help in many ways, but it could also hinder your chances. You had to genuinely enjoy working with animals, and not just be into the job for glory or wealth (you'd be sorely disappointed if that was your expectation). You had to care about animals without being obsessed with them (there were plenty of dolphin nuts who really wanted to do the job, but were far too obsessed or consumed with dolphins to be objective and rational). I did witness accidents, and I did witness attacks. Animals lashed out at each other, and lashed out at trainers, too. They would even 'ambush' park guests periodically, who may or may not have provoked them in any way. They see as well or better than we do, they hear above and below water extremely well, and the jumps, gasps, screams and yells of a passing guest getting drenched was enough to excite any animal, human or not. I had a couple bites (nothing severe), a concussion (which I can only blame on fellow trainers, or myself, but not the animals), and at least one severe laceration (also not directly inflicted by the animals).
I've seen animals born, and I've seen animals die. I have seen people pushed around, and I have seen them bitten severely. I estimate that at least 3 million times whales have worked face to face with trainers at Sea World since its inception, and that is an incredible track record. Last week was a rare, rare exception. No matter how rough things ever got in the past, I never saw or heard of anything like what happened last week. Dunking, grabbing, pushing, and even biting was always controlled to the degree that nobody died (and it would be so easy for them to kill). Dawn's family and friends will miss and mourn her. Her ordeal was so rare and tragic.

[–]disco_biscuit -2 points-1 points ago

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Are you also a ghost? If not, a troll?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -2 points-1 points ago

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Show some decency and respect. A beautiful person lost her life.

[–]Chipware 0 points1 point ago

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Downvoted for attitude.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I am not here for points. I am here to discuss. If someone wants to be an idiot, I am not going to be kind or polite. If someone wants inside knowledge, I'll help as best I can.

[–]lindini 2 points3 points ago

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I think you have some good information and I think most of us seriously would like to hear what you have to say but you really should know your tone is downright hostile in the majority of your responses. It makes it hard to read or enjoy. Better to ignore a troll, or joke you don't like, than become part of the problem. Just my two cents anyway...

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I am sorry if hostility is the message I get across in the 'majority' of my responses. I did not come on here to be funny. I did not come on here to be sarcastic. I did not come on here to be hostile. But, I also did not come on here to be anybody's target for a joke, sarcasm or hostility either. I am not a trainer anymore. I have nothing to gain, and nothing to benefit, by sharing what I know. I did not even know about this website until 2 days ago, when I was strongly encouraged to speak up. I refused to do so. My friend relented, and now I can see the benefit of speaking up, and the drawbacks, too. I did ignore a couple of the goofy questions (take the high road), and did 'bite back' at some of the more venomous attacks. I appreciate your opinion, and will take that into consideration when dealing with the good, the bad and the aesthetically unique (see, I did not say 'ugly'). Seriously,...... Thanks.

Oh, one of the first questions I got was 'who is in charge of jerking off the whales'. I answered, telling about the success of the Artificial Insemination program we have.
All they wanted then was the dirty details,..... so I spelled it out a little (without making it into Penthouse Forum).

I'll compromise a little (or even a lot), but I will not sacrifice my core beliefs, values, pride or integrity. My fellow writers (not 'my readers') deserve answers and information, and none of us need the poison pen of some of the contributors who are not adding anything but toxicity to this discussion.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -1 points0 points ago

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Probably Tilikum's fault, if that's what you mean.

[–]Q_the_Avenger -1 points0 points ago

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Regarding the six-ton wild animals who did not choose to be kidnapped from the ocean, how do you feel about the name "killer" whales and why do you refer to them that way yourself?

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 3 points4 points ago

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'Orcinus Orca' is such a mouthful. It's a lot easier to talk about 'People' than it is to talk about 'Homo Sapiens'. Snails who prey upon other snail species are 'Killer Snails'. Same with Bees, same with Whales. Orcinus Orca (the largest species of Dolphin) preys upon Dolphins, Sea Lions, Seals, Elephant Seals, Penguins, Fish of all descriptions.... a sophisticated palate to say the least.
'Killer Whale' is the common name for Orcas.
-Bottlenose/Tursiops Truncatus -Beluga/Delphinapterus Leucas -California Sea Lion/Zalophus Californianus and the list goes on.
'Killer Whale' is their names, too, not a nickname.

[–]Q_the_Avenger 1 point2 points ago

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Okie dokie... all I know is, on all the whale watching trips I've taken, they didn't dare call them "killer whales"... they just said "Orcas."

And "Orcas Island" has a nicer ring to it.

[–]rainycity 0 points1 point ago

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I just imagined a zodiak full of tourists unfamiliar with the whales hearing them referred to as killer whales. As the 6 tonne beasts are spy hopping 100 meters away from the boat. Don't think that would go over well...

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -1 points0 points ago

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Why wouldn't they 'dare' call them Killer Whales? It's not like the fishing charters are forced to be P.C. or anything. But they did not say -Zalophus Californianus -Delphinus Delphis -Eschrichtius robustus -Commerson's Commersoni -Odobenus Rosmarus Rosmarus -and so on. I agree, 'Orcas Island' has a better ring to it.
Sea World definitely has a way with euphemisms. If anyone was going to insist on calling them Orcas instead of Killer Whales, I would expect it to be them.

[–]jacksonapple -1 points0 points ago

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Verification? (Not to be a dick, but I live in Orlando)

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Verified.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -4 points-3 points ago

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I can verify, but not to just anyone. I have the facts, the names, dates, places and scars to substantiate my claims.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]groovychick 1 point2 points ago

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I believe he is who he says he is. Interesting AMAs shouldn't be cluttered with negative energy. YOU contribute something to the conversation or GTFO!

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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FAKE you, too, buddy. Once the moderators reply, I can get back to the issue, and ignore the insults. I came here to share insight, and share insider knowledge. If you can't tell the difference between FAKE and real, then maybe you should tune into WWF instead.
Everything here is genuine.

[–]groovychick 0 points1 point ago

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plus, this doesnt sound like the kind of thing you can make up. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/b6ofq/i_was_a_sea_world_killer_whale_trainer_ama/c0l87ir

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I can guarantee that is not the case. No Fakers here. Once I get a response from a moderator, I can remove all doubt.

Then I will GTFO...... 'Go To Front Of' the Line.

[–]knight1to1 -4 points-3 points ago

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What was it like to be killed by an Orca???

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I wish you could tell me.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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This requires a star before my downvote goes anywhere.

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I'm working on it. I guess moderators are human, too, because there don't seem to be any of them awake right now.
I'll verify my status with them, and hopefully curtail the crybabies (present company excluded from the moniker).

[–]blackazndude -4 points-3 points ago

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where you there at the time did u know the girl who got....

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -3 points-2 points ago

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No and no.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]stickyquicky -2 points-1 points ago

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I believe "was" is the key word here.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]KillerWhaleTrainer[S] -3 points-2 points ago

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All personal information and private questions.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points ago

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Whats Up?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points ago

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So is it your fault?