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[–]eigenmouse 19 points20 points ago

We scrimp on things we don't care about so we can afford the things we do care about, such as living in an expensive metropolitan area.

[–]judgemebymyusername -4 points-3 points ago

such as living in an expensive metropolitan area.

Such as?

[–]fr1endlyf1re 10 points11 points ago

high paying jobs is probably the number 1 reason [there is a higher cost of living, but if you live frugally, you can negate a good amount of that], general entertainment is probably number 2 [restaurants, stores, bars, concerts, museums, free classes, and yes you can do this stuff frugally]. in short, it is typically just more fun for a lot of people.

for me, and i know i dont speak for everybody, or even most people in this forum, but cities just have so many more options and while they often cost money, that is part of why i am frugal; i save money where i can so that i can enjoy things around me without living paycheck to paycheck.

im a social person and i have way more friends in this city than i do even back home, and the friends i have back home love visiting the city. further, it is so much easier to meet new people when there are so many clubs, activities, etc. that smaller cities just dont have

[–]judgemebymyusername 0 points1 point ago

I went to College in Omaha and loved it. I am planning on moving back this year. It's a smaller city, and fits the bill for what most of the people here commenting seem to like. When I asked the question, it seems that people immediately thought of living on the farm miles from nowhere as compared to my aim which was a smaller town or city.

[–]flyingponytail 2 points3 points ago

such as...

okay, you want it spelled out for you, I will --

so many great restaurants, and lots of choices in grocery stores, great sports venues i.e., NHL/NFL/MLB etc, great bands in great venues (saw Pearl Jam not too long ago), outdoor recreation like big mountain skiing, the ocean and the weather (can you tell I choose to live in the Pacific Northwest) great shopping like REI (the climbing tower!), H&M, the Apple Store, Lululemon, big bookstores, IKEA, yes I could shop online (and do - would usually buy from these retailers on sale) but I love the experience of going to these shops. Big community rec centres with indoor soccer fields, pools, arenas, gyms all open until 1 am. Lots and lots of people and experiences happening all the time.

The biggest reason for me is, when I have kids, they will get to choose any activities they want to do and have the best coaches and teams and competition to play with/against.

Most importantly the anonymity of living in a big city where I can go around and do what I want and not run into people I know. Unless I want to.

[–]L3931 2 points3 points ago

well put. I just moved from a very small town with lots of poverty, low education, very little job opportunities, zero restaurants, entertainment, or grocery stores. Now that I live in a big city I cannot imagine going back.

[–]nyki 1 point2 points ago

After living in a small-ish town for 18 years, the same 2 bars, bowling alleys, chain restaurants and lack of authentic ethnic food get old fast. I live in NYC now, and the cost of living is absolutely worth it. There are so many things to see and do. I don't mind having a small living space because I'm rarely in it. I'm willing to pay a premium to have a shorter commute. There is no amount of money that will make me sit in traffic for 2 hours every day.

[–]goddesspyxy 0 points1 point ago

I've only visited NYC and it was so fun, but if I lived there I think I would miss having a back yard to hang out in. Do you ever miss the outdoor space?

[–]nyki 0 points1 point ago

Have you seen the size of central park? It's like everybody's backyard. I love how it's almost like a bunch of smaller parks grouped together: lake, duck pond, ice skating, woods, fields, etc.

You can also use the roof as a pseudo-backyard. The one at work is set up like a deck with couches and tables, and the one at my apartment building has a really nice rooftop garden.

[–]goddesspyxy 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, I saw central park. I was more thinking of space that you could use without having to really leave home to use it. The rooftop garden would probably be the closest approximation.

[–]PandaJones 6 points7 points ago

Better quality of life for you maybe, but not me. For me, a better quality of life is having access to multiple art museums where I can see world famous art, several colleges where I can attend free lectures about all kinds of topics, the site of several festivals throughout the year, just about every musical artist you can think of coming here at some point or another, etc, etc.

[–]xnoseatbelt 5 points6 points ago

Keep in mind that for some people it is much easier to make more money in metropolitan areas.... this is true for myself. While it costs more to live in the city you can also make a whole lot more in some instances.

[–]judgemebymyusername 1 point2 points ago

I'm dealing with the same issue. I moved to Maryland due to higher salaries and more job opportunities, but quite honestly due to the high cost of real estate here, $100k in Maryland is equal to about $50k in Nebraska. The higher salaries in urban areas don't grow proportionally to the cost of living.

[–]budgetchick 5 points6 points ago

I live in a small city in the midwest and coming from a city of a little less than a million, I am incredibly bored here. Almost every weekend, unless I work, I go down to visit my boyfriend. He lives in a big city, and even just driving around is more interesting than being in my small town.

I would rather pay more to live somewhere interesting than pay less to live in a boring town. Some people don't want to live in a big city, but for me it's a necessity.

[–]duderMcdude 0 points1 point ago

I know you don't want to here this, but any place can be "boring." It's what you make of it.

[–]judgemebymyusername -4 points-3 points ago

It sounds to me like it's an issue with not being able to entertain yourself, or find hobbies or things to do. There is plenty to do although admittedly it's much more fun when you have friends to do those things with.

[–]budgetchick 1 point2 points ago

I have hobbies and things to do. Most of them are things I can do in my apartment like reading, watching TV/movies and being somewhat artsy. But as far as things in the community that I would want to do? Can't even compare to the summer when I lived in New York. Just walking outside could be an adventure.

[–]judgemebymyusername -2 points-1 points ago

During the summer me and my friends would take the boat out and go swimming, tubing, and fishing on the lakes. Or maybe we'd go to the bars and dance, or have a grill-out and end the night with drinks around the campfire. Every summer a big group of people head to the river and spent a day just sitting in tubes or metal tanks and floating down the river and enjoying time together. Other times we'd go clay shooting or something. There are plenty of adventures to be had wherever you are.

[–]budgetchick 2 points3 points ago

True. But like you said earlier, I'm in a new place and haven't made friends here. At least when I visit my SO, I can see other good friends there.

[–]Trunkbutt 4 points5 points ago

Employment? Most of the companies who hire for the types of jobs my husband and I do are in cities. I'm working back toward full time telecommuting so it's no big deal, but his job works best when he's on-site at this time. I doubt we're the only ones with this issue.

[–]judgemebymyusername -2 points-1 points ago

Employment is definitely a valid issue for some people depending on their careers. It is certainly not stopping everyone though. I can't think of many jobs that are available in a place like NYC that aren't available in a city of 500,000k. Even a city of 100,000 has nearly every job imaginable.

[–]fr1endlyf1re 2 points3 points ago

this just isnt true. while they may have similar jobs, they arent going to be the same job, and it wont be for near the same pay. i cant find a finance job that is comparable to NYC in many 100k people cities. i cant find a health care research job comparable to Boston in many. the list goes on and on, it just simply isnt true when dealing with higher level, specific jobs.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

the list goes on and on, it just simply isnt true when dealing with higher level, specific jobs.

Exactly. But on the other hand, not every single person is working in a high level, specific job.

[–]nyki 1 point2 points ago

There's a lot to be said about working around the people in your industry. There's a reason a lot of tech companies are in Silicon Valley, the entertainment industry is in LA, and big finance companies are in NYC: networking.

Sure, I could work at a design firm in a smaller city, but not many are going to get big projects like the ones bigger cities. I'm surrounded by a huge network of people in my field, so there are always a lot of industry events, conventions and professional groups that really do help me become better at what I do.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

Valid point for certain people, as I've stated elsewhere in this comment section. My target is the people who aren't in professional positions, as a good majority of the labor force works in retail jobs which aren't as selective. Your comment only makes sense for a small % of people, me being one of them.

[–]flaregunpopshow 3 points4 points ago

You might also have to take in account that the job selection in small towns is much smaller than that in cities.

I would also have to agree with what 5-4-3-2-1-bang said about living in a small town. For me, being bored all of the time is not worth saving the extra money.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

What job do you have that isn't available in a town of say, 100,000k people?

[–]flaregunpopshow 0 points1 point ago

I guess I mean a large suburban area works as well, but it tends to be the same price. When a town gets under 10k or so people it turns into a small town.

[–]judgemebymyusername -3 points-2 points ago

Define "small town".

[–]Jack_Donaghy_Jr 0 points1 point ago

< 1,000,000 residents

[–]goddesspyxy 1 point2 points ago

Living close to where I work, being able to walk to shops and restaurants, having choices other than Wal-Mart...these are my reasons for living in a metro area.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

You can live in a town of 3,000 people and walk everywhere you need to, and there is no Wal-Mart within 30 miles. Problem solved.

[–]The_Chief 2 points3 points ago

Because I hate driving.

[–]judgemebymyusername -4 points-3 points ago

I don't understand. Driving is much worse in a city than a rural area. Depending on where you live, you don't need a vehicle at all.

[–]outpt 4 points5 points ago

In a large city, many people don't drive at all. And not spending money on car payments/gas/insurance/parking is a huge savings. Transportation costs me at most $100 a month (unlimited Metrocard, although most of the time I don't need to spend even that), which I can't image being feasible with car ownership.

[–]judgemebymyusername -3 points-2 points ago

In a small town, many people don't drive at all either. Thus, your argument goes both ways. Then you could even add in lower tax rates and lower cost of real estate in a small town.

[–]heylookitsliz 1 point2 points ago

I Think that quality of life can only be determined by the person to whom this is referring. Arguing that the quality of life is inherently better in a certain area is negating the fact that if you don't enjoy living there, than it doesn't matter how good the amenities are.

I went to college in a small town in the midwest. I understand the charm, but I wouldn't change my city preferences, regardless of cost-of-living.

[–]5-4-3-2-1-bang 3 points4 points ago

It's a quality of life issue. I went to school in a relatively small town (roughly 40K people) but I grew up in a major metro. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of BFE when I graduated!

Simply put, the phrase "What's going on? Nothin'" doesn't exist in a major metro. There is always something to do if you want to do it, and a lot of it is free. Not-at-all true for a minor town; pretty much everything revolves around the local high school football team, alcohol, or both. Boooo-riiiiiing.

[–]embwba0000 4 points5 points ago

It's a quality of life issue.

I completely agree. However, I think we'd define that differently. I grew up in a midwest town of about 2000, went to college in a town of about 7000, got married and moved to a city of about 100000. I couldn't wait to get out of the city and back to BFE. I prefer trees, rocks, and water to concrete and cars. Further, there are a lot of social ills that go away north of the 45th parallel. A buddy of mine, who grew up in North Dakota, is fond of the saying, "20 below keeps the riff raff out."

There is always something to do if you want to do it, and a lot of it is free.

That's true here, too. It's true that some of the cultural experiences of a major city are absent here. Our art and music scene is local, but it's there. What I wouldn't have in Minneapolis or Chicago (nearest big cities) is the access to wilderness. Within 2 minutes of walking out my back door I can be on miles of hiking, skiiing, snowshoeing, and biking trails. There are miles of undeveloped Lake Superior shoreline for camping, having bonfires, swimming, etc. within a 40 minute drive. Plenty of lakes, rivers, and waterfalls. I like the outdoors, so a city isn't a very good environment for me. And, like OP pointed out, my housing cost is a fraction of what it was in the city.

However, because of our remoteness, food and gasoline is actually more expensive as it has to be shipped further, for most items. I garden and buy as much local produce as possible when it's in season, along with milk, cheese, and eggs year-round from regional farms, but if you want anything besides root veggies in winter, you're going to be buying them from Cali, Florida, or Mexico, and they'll be more expensive.

All told, I would say I have a better quality of life living in BFE vs. my quality of life in the city. It's a matter of values, though. If you value city life, clearly your quality of life will not improve by moving out of the city.

[–]5-4-3-2-1-bang 1 point2 points ago

All told, I would say I have a better quality of life living in BFE vs. my quality of life in the city. It's a matter of values, though. If you value city life, clearly your quality of life will not improve by moving out of the city.

That's probably the most level-headed summary of the issue, and one I can wholeheartedly agree with. While BFE was a nice change for me, when the time came I had my fill. For me the old saying is very true -- quite nice to visit, but after doing it I certainly don't want to live there. ;)

[–]embwba0000 1 point2 points ago

quite nice to visit, but after doing it I certainly don't want to live there.

Exactly. I love my vacations to the city, but my home is in the woods.

[–]PandaJones 1 point2 points ago

Are you my cousin? We enjoy visiting each other (he comes to the city to see me, I go to the country to see him) and always have a great time. But at the end of each visit, we always talk about how much we missed home. There is never any talk of either of us moving closer.

[–]embwba0000 0 points1 point ago

No, I am not your cousin.

[–]Atomo_v 0 points1 point ago

Gettin' drunk and makin' babies.

[–]judgemebymyusername -3 points-2 points ago

Not-at-all true for a minor town; pretty much everything revolves around the local high school football team, alcohol, or both. Boooo-riiiiiing.

Stereotypes FTL.

[–]5-4-3-2-1-bang 2 points3 points ago*

I'm sorry if the actual experience matched what was written on the box, but there is no arguing with reality. That was exactly what my personal experience was both living out in BFE and dating girls who lived in even-less-than-BFE.

I used to measure how large a BFE town was not by the official census numbers, but by the number of bars in the town. "That's a 3 bar town" meant that its main street was between a block and two blocks long. A six bar town had a main street that was between 3 and 4 blocks long, etc.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

Yeah, if you're talking really small towns, you just measure them by the number of bars and churches. Plus 1 for stoplights, and plus 1 for any national food chains. :)

[–]5-4-3-2-1-bang 1 point2 points ago

And think about that for a moment... think of the smallest back woods town you know. It might not have a gas station (even money). It probably doesn't have a grocery store. It might not even have a local church (or might have a part-time church). But it always has at least one bar. It's just the way things are out there.

[–]dishtowel 1 point2 points ago

Bridgeport, CT here. It is much cheaper to live here or in the less ghetto surrounding areas, but some people just prefer to live in the city. I'd personally prefer to live in an even smaller town, but it's just not possible for me.

I think deciding where to live is much less of a financial choice for many people.

[–]dropanchor 1 point2 points ago

We moved from the SLC area to a small town of about 30k people and we love it. We also save about $700/mo. on rent. However, I think other people would be bored here. I am a maker, I love to try new things and can food from my garden and the fact that this place is surrounded by farms keeps me busy on the canning front. We go to the river and float it on the weekends, people fish here a lot. It's a different lifestyle completely, and I'm cool with it, but others would not enjoy it as much as we do.

[–]duderMcdude 0 points1 point ago

There are hidden costs to living outside of the city. I live in a mid-western city (milwaukee), and by appropriately choosing my area, I didn't need to buy a car. A car's costs can vary wildly, but I'd say that not having one easily makes back any higher costs of living. I'm not saying this is for everyone, but it certainly works for me.

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

It is also possible to live without a car in a small city or town.

[–]duderMcdude 0 points1 point ago

mmmm, that really depends on the place -- I think for many places in Europe or Asia --yes, but the U.S. --- very few places are bike/ distance friendly

[–]judgemebymyusername -1 points0 points ago

very few places are bike/ distance friendly

Maybe I'm ignorant of biking, but many towns cover a space of less than say, 25 square miles or so? And that includes the entire town. Surely that's considered biking distance, no?

[–]duderMcdude 0 points1 point ago

well, it depends on the weather and the person. If you've got snow for parts of the year, biking is tough even in distances of a few miles. But even in great weather, 5 miles is far on a bike to go for groceries--every time. Very out of shape people need few hills and distances of only a few miles (not to say that they wouldnt improve).The real issue is that most American small towns are moving away from the "downtown" shopping. Places like walmart and target are generally spaced liberally apart from competitors --away from city centers in "shopping districts" that are designed for automobile traffic. Gone are the days when you could "ride into town" and get everything done. You could make the argument about getting most of your stuff delivered via the internet, but the mark-up on groceries is still pretty high.

[–]judgemebymyusername 0 points1 point ago

The most bike-able towns aren't big enough to have a Wal-Mart, but surely that's too small for most people.

[–]SquareIsTopOfCool 0 points1 point ago

Around where I live (Connecticut) cheaper housing means living in a lousy neighborhood (as I currently am). Anywhere with cheaper housing in nice neighborhoods is pretty far away, and it would mean giving up my friends, family, pets - my entire support network. Since I have a variety of medical problems, moving would also mean I'd have to find new doctors, which is VERY difficult. I lived in North Carolina for a while and loved the lower cost of living there, but I had to move back up north because I couldn't manage my medical problems on my own.

Moving means uprooting your entire life. It's more complicated than it seems.

[–]judgemebymyusername 0 points1 point ago

Medical issues bring up a valid point for staying put, regardless of living in an urban or rural area.

[–]isleepinahammock 1 point2 points ago

Because in my experience, smaller, more rural places have a far lower quality of life.

I'm LGBT, trans specifically, and it will be a cold day in hell before I move to some podunk town in rural Arkansas. Sorry, played that game. I've lived in small towns and small cities. When I think "small town" I don't think classic America, Leave it to Beaver, or any other cliche. I think backwards, close-minded people who hate and fear anyone who isn't white, married, straight, and Christian.

Could I get cheap housing elsewhere? Sure. But my rent is $367 a month. I could buy a nice two bedroom condo here for $45k. I live in a safe neighborhood in one of the 5 largest cities in America. I have far more access to jobs here than probably anywhere else in the country. For me to move to a small town would be isolating, physically dangerous, and financially suicidal.

[–]judgemebymyusername 0 points1 point ago

I can definitely see your side based on your situation. Thanks for your honest and open response. You're doing great by finding a place for $367 a month too.

[–]isleepinahammock 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, I do it by living with roommates. That's another pro of living in a big city. In small towns, it's very hard to live with roommates. Almost everyone will be owning, living with family, or renting their own apartment. To find roommates, you might have to live with someone wildly different than you. (Think getting out of college and having to live with a 50-year old divorcee or something like that.)

In a big city, even if only a small percent of people choose to live with roommates, that small percent still comes to a large total number. I can find young professionals like myself to live with. If I lived in a small town, I would have to rent or else perhaps rent a bedroom in someone else's house, which is way more awkward than sharing an apartment with a few friends. I would have to get my own full apartment.

So, I'm pretty sure my rent would be higher in a small town. Living in a big city may have more expensive rent, but the diversity of living arrangements allows you to be creative.