Is the goal of being "saved" really about going to heaven, or is it about being saved from death and a cycle of primal human instincts?

silouan · 3 months

Just a thought: When Christ tells people "Your faith has saved you" and "Your faith has made you whole," he's using the exact same sentence: ἡ πίστις σου σέσωκέν σε.

That verb, sozo and its related noun sotiria apply to: rescuing someone from danger, preserving them in the midst of danger, bringing about health and soundness. Peter writes that we who now have faith expect to arrive at a goal: that our souls be saved. James writes to Christians that the word, if implanted in us, is able to save our souls. They aren't talking about crossing some invisible line between "going to hell" and "going to heaven." They're talking about the actual state of our heart and soul.

Related to this action of healing and preservation is Paul's counsel that our minds need to be renewed. David sings, "He restores my soul" and "Unite my heart to fear Your name."

Our English words "heal," "whole" and "holy" are all cognates (tiresome language nerd references on demand). In Greek, sos (safe) is the root word of sophronismos which is used to mean "self-discipline" but comes from root words for a whole or safe mind.

Christ talks about the eye as a lamp. If the eye of your heart is darkened with wounds and passions, and your attention is fragmented, shattered and distracted amid a thousand sensations and thoughts, then your need is to be made whole. Restored to health, and restored to relationship with people and with God.

For Greek-speakers, that's sotiria - what the Bible calls salvation.

minedom · 3 months

This is beautiful. The goal of being saved, imo, is not about simply going to heaven. It is seeing the beauty of a Christ who died not to save you only, but to set you free, so that you can have life. Not merely eternal life, but abundant life. Well said.

MarlovianDiscosophia · 3 months

Almost Eastern Orthodox. It's about restoring the image of God within us, theosis.

SubversiveLove · 3 months

Salvation; gr. sōtēría. From sṓzō. Definition: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

Salvation is not about heaven. It's about healing.

tavarner17 · 3 months

The goal is a relationship with your Creator, and Heaven comes as a bonus.

pygreg · 3 months

I don't think being "saved" is really about going to Heaven at all. God doesn't really talk about taking people up to some tripped out paradise all that often. Mostly he seems concerned with keeping his promise to renew all things by making a new heavens and a new Earth, and how His followers can live in such a way that spreads that renewal even now.

TheIcelander · 3 months

You say "primal human instincts" like it's a bad thing. I happen to enjoy mine quite a bit. My sexual instinct, my instinct to eat, my instinct to love my family, my instinct to hate injustice. Why are these things to be liberated from?

baptist1611 · 3 months

Salvation and Sanctification

Salvation != Sanctification

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

PotatoOrgy · 3 months

Nice!

danzor9755 · 3 months

It's about knowing your creator and being reconciled to him, which in turn means eternity with him.

TheHadMatter · 3 months

both really. one is kind of the bi product of the other i guess.

fledgling_theologian · 3 months

Thomas Aquinas' soteriology and sacramental theology are on board with your basic intuition. The power of the cross is what "heals" us, restoring us to full human stature from the broken condition we've inherited since the fall of our First Parents. The sacraments then become the signs and gestures that connect us to the great healing/forgiving power of the cross.

Having been saved from the depths of sin and death, we can now grow as we ought, live as we ought, and love as we ought--as human beings, restored by Christ to right relation with God and creation. With the sacraments at hand, we are able to strive for the fullness of humanity, the life abundant (Jn 10:10), the hundredfold now(Mk 10:31), and complete joy(Jn 15:11).

Being saved is just the beginning...

allanpopa · 3 months

Being saved is never a completed event, it is always a process. That much is clear from the language used by the Apostle Paul in describing salvation. What we are saved from is something a little more obscure, there appears to be a consistency in theological musings on the topic in that we are saved from evil but how that really pans out is ambiguous at best.

Either way, imagining salvation as a process of liberating humankind from evil appears to be the most common way we may be able to come to terms with it today. Participating in this process, this New Creation, is generally spoken of as living in love, peace, justice and forgiveness. This certainly is how we can imagine evil being conquered - how we can imagine salvation from evil as being incarnated.

[deleted] · 3 months

That is a difficult question. I would not say the goal is to get saved from Hell or get to go to Heaven. And I'm sure everyone has already seen the prooftexts enough times that whether you believe or disbelieve them or interpret them differently there does seem to be texts which talk about a real place of eternal suffering and a real place of eternal paradise.

But is that to be our goal upon accepting Christ? I think that there is more emphasis in scriptures on getting right with God, and yes, doing good things. But really, as far as Heaven goes, they seemed to put the emphasis on living right, but that does not render the doctrine irrelevant either.

peter_j_ · 3 months

No, it's about glorifying God.

Waking_Phoenix · 3 months

I believe the latter: 14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. [Hebrews 2|ESV]

You got it, man. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

They will tell you it's all about escaping Hell and running off to Heaven but when you read the Bible you realize that's not what Jesus does or what the focus is, and from all condemnation there is a purpose. Read Jeremiah. It shows those cycles very well.

trovocation · 3 months

I think about it as wanting to be in relationship with God. That is what has to determine our descriptions of 'heaven' and 'salvation'. Heaven is a place where God lives among his people in perfect relationship. Salvation is reconciliation to God, being saved from the horror that is to be separated from God. Therefore, hell is a place we adopt when we reject salvation. We'd rather go to hell than to be with God. That is the underlying motivation between either outcome: death and heaven are consequences on the side.

Duke_Newcombe · 3 months

Yes.

ebfulch · 3 months

These days I find that I could completely remove even the concept of "heaven" and my theology of salvation would remain in tact. And even salvation is a difficult term for me because of some of the ways it's been used (saved from hell, etc.). I have a faith (active trust...key ACTIVE) in Christ because I believe Christ is the one who will redeem our world, bringing his kingdom to earth in order to remake our world. So, in my mind, salvation is more about earth than it is about "heaven." "Thy Kingdom come, they will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven." That's our prayer as Christians.

letter_ten · 3 months

When we're called to Heaven, we'll have the privelege to worship our God with no distractions or human desires. Our bodies will be glorified with His holy splendor. Our joy will be made complete. Our yearning will be satisfied. In short the effects of sin will be no more. Beautiful indeed. Great insight, partofaplan2 :)

GoMustard · 3 months

The question that ought preoccupy our faithful contemplation is not whether we are saved; but rather what it is we've been saved for.

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