Reddit, around a fifth of my fraternity brothers are redditors, and we've all noticed an "anti-Frat" sentiment here. Why is that?

picklejuicebox · 3 months

I think that a lot of people are just really turned off by something that is so blatantly exclusive. Other groups are equally exclusive in their own way (sports, by major, etc) but have more concrete ways to select members. People assume that the reasons people are admitted to a fraternity or sorority are superficial.

polarb68111 · 3 months

Without being in the fraternity I was in, it would have be socially awkward penguin for 4 years. While we did party, it was mandatory to carry a 3.0 gpa or risk probation, we had on average a 3.65 at the school and a 3.10 held by all of the chapters together. We promoted intellectualism and the betterment of ones self. Doesn't mean we didn't have fun, but we weren't asshats to others either. I would like to think we were the Good Guy Greg's of the Greek life. And we are the largest undergrad fraternity in North America. I can understand the dislike from another persons perspective, I thought it was a joke and would not have joined had someone not actively pursued me. I gave them a chance to prove to me, that the common stereotype of "Frat Life" was not always true. I do know there are those out there that give all of Greek life a bad name. Look at the same comparison of peoples opinion of police officers, alot of people hate the police. Despise them even for the actions of few, yes there is a small percentage of officers out there that are bad. Not all of them are though, most of them aren't. Basic point I am trying to make is please don't judge the actions of a few as a picture of the whole.

TL:DR Some fraternity members give the whole a bad image. Please don't judge the whole group for few that screw up.

Reddit_guard · 3 months

On my end, it isn't a resentment towards the individuals as much as a complete disdain for the culture that surrounds Greek life. At my school, fraternities and sororities are rather prevalent, and they seem to promote a lifestyle that is not conducive to academics (read binge drinking and whatnot) -- the primary reason for which we attend college. I have quite a few friends in fraternities, and I think nothing badly of them. However, there seems to be a general notion that college = partying typical of Greek life. For that reason, I oppose Greek life.

ABCme · 3 months

You aren't all bad guys, but there's a shit ton of you who are, and they represent all of you. People outside of Greek life don't give a damn what letters are on your shirt--you're all the same to them. We used to have a saying that "you wear your letters at all times" as a way of saying that you were never not representing your organization, even if you weren't readily identifiable, and extrapolating from that logic, one bad seed can ruin your entire image.

For context, I was the good guy in my fraternity, was the top grades, and a part of the leadership. Do your best to make people see that you're different, but know that you won't win everyone over, and you can't without hanging one-on-one with people.

6point8 · 3 months

Reddit, as a whole, identifies quite closely with the ostracized smart kid from highschool/college, who, while trying to fit in, fell victim to the joking and teasing of guys that went on to become frat members. It's not really anything against guys that are in frats, it's part lingering resentment and part (I presume) envy for the sense of brotherhood you enjoy.

longboardingerrday · 3 months

I can't stand the frat guys who take an easy major so they can party all of the time but I know some well mannered, smart frat guys. Hell, there are engineering frats.

smokesteam · 3 months

I went to university in the 80s and here were the stereotypes of frat boys:

spoiled rich kids who drove BMWs or Mercedes
drunk all the time
violent to those outside their peer group
violent hazing rituals which resulted in about 3 pledges per year ending up dead and more than that in the ER
date rapers

SinfonianOAEU · 3 months

Like any other groups, fraternities are represented to the rest of society by their worst members.

The fraternities/chapters that truly strive to build better men by promoting brotherhood, service, and philanthropy go overlooked because, frankly, they aren't loud and noticeable.

The fraternity members who get noticed by society are the ones you see in the news getting busted for rape, hazing, drugs, binge drinking--everything that reinforces the negative portrayal of fraternities in movies and pop culture in general.

I've been a member of a fraternity for eight years, and being part of this brotherhood has been one of the most enriching experiences of my life. That said, I find that I still greatly dislike most of the other fraternities I encountered on my campus. It seemed that most other fraternities, or at least their most visible members (the guys who wear letters, recruit aggressively, and hang out in front of their house) are complete tools. They are loud and obnoxious, have abrasive personalities, and have a "Don't like us? Then fuck off!" attitude.

It's very difficult for me to believe that guys who act like this embrace their fraternity's mission statement.

To pick a random fraternity as an example, I'll use Tau Kappa Epsilon. They're a very large, national fraternity. This is copied directly from their national website:

Vision Tau Kappa Epsilon creates lifelong relationships that enhance educational, interpersonal, community and professional success.

Mission Our mission is to aid men in their mental, moral, and social development for life.

Purpose TKE contributes to the advancement of society through the personal growth of our members, and service to others.

Before I continue, I'd just like to point out that I'm not going to bash on TKE--I just needed a typical vision/mission statement as an example.

If I saw a bunch of guys wearing TKE letters acting like complete douchebags in public, making sexual comments to random women, and generally drawing the disgust of everyone around them, I would be hard-pressed to believe they give two shits about the mission of the fraternity they joined. Further, I'd lose respect for TKE not just because these guys are representing them poorly, but because I would feel like TKE did a very poor job recruiting and educating its members.

The truly sad companion to this, though, is that I probably wouldn't remember if I saw a group of guys wearing TKE letters cleaning up a local park or running a fundraiser for a charity.

Acts of service and philanthropy don't evoke powerful emotions in most of us (perhaps a problem in our society), while something as simple as witnessing a group of guys act like assholes can leave us fuming with rage. We'll remember that experience and maybe even talk about it with our friends or post it on Facebook. We love to hate on people, and the "fratboy" stereotype is easy to hate.

All of this, though, is a symptom of a larger issue. Even if we acknowledge that not all fraternities are bad, and that maybe even most members are good, decent people, we're left with the question "Why are the behaviors we attribute to 'fratboys' so common?"

In my own experience, I've found the crux of this problem to be that a fraternity's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness; A fraternity can reinforce ANY behavior adopted by the group.

Your fraternity becomes a surrogate family that has a great deal of influence over your behavior. If your brothers place a high value on behavioral standards and hard work, your fraternity can be a very positive force for good both in the lives of its members and in the community in which it resides.

However, if your brothers place a high value on "making those goddamn pledges earn their keep" and securing this weekend's "slam piece," you might begin to think that hazing your new members and treating women like disposable sex objects is simply normal behavior.

With reinforcement and affirmation of deplorable group behavior established, there's only one ingredient left for the perfect recipe for the most hate-able guys on campus: elitism.

Becoming part of a fraternity is exciting. You've made the cut, and these guys want you to be part of the group. You experience the initiation ritual (for better or worse, depending on fraternity and chapter), and now you're one of the bros! You feel a great deal of pride to be part of something you value so greatly.

While there's absolutely nothing wrong with fraternal pride, it can easily turn into elitism if one begins to de-value other people for not being part of one's in-group. Your friend from the dorms who didn't make the cut for your rush class? Whatever, he didn't get a bid because he's a loser. That guy who was offered a bid but rejected it? Fuck him, he's just a goddamn independent.

Through the eyes of many people who have never been part of one, fraternities are full of douchebags who do nothing but drink, hound women (or rape them), haze their members, and think they are better than you because of it.

I do think it's an unfair judgement to apply the stereotype to all fraternities and fraternity men, but I also can't blame them. I'm a frat man and I'm guilty of it myself.

edit: I accidentally a word.

The_User_Abides · 3 months

Lack of individualism. Mob mentality. Lack of ability to stand alone. I don't agree that all frat guys are like this but enough to warrant a stereotype.

SeantotheRescue · 3 months

As a fellow fraternity member, what I've gathered is its a simple fallacy of generalization.

dvdvdv · 3 months

I guess the general concept of fraternities, and the greek system in general is unappealing to a lot of people. Frats and frat guys have certain stereotypes attached, and a lot of frat bros tend to confirm it. Not that I have anything against them- I like the whole brotherhood concept of it. In my opinion, I'd say that sororities are seen way worse than fraternities are.

ksmoeller · 3 months

Fraternities are ideally organizations composed of members who are looking to improve themselves every day. This is how they exist at some universities, but not all. The issue with them is that when an individual of the chapter does something stupid, it's heavily scrutinized and reflects poorly on the entire group.

If Greek Life sucks at your school-- I'm sorry. It can be and should be so much better. I'm currently chapter president of my school's Sigma Nu chapter, and for me, it's been the best decision I've made as an undergraduate.

tl;dr: If all chapters lived the values that they take an oath by, our bad reputation wouldn't exist.

baloothebear88 · 3 months

frat guys, as individuals, can be great people. as individuals. when you have a gathering of them (read 4+), shit tends to get pretty douchey.

nuerm1sa · 3 months

Buncha GEEDS with nothing better to do

You_Are_SO_BRAVE · 3 months

SO BRAVE

Zodikosis · 3 months

Dunno about where you go, but here, in my university, all the loud-mouth dim-witted overly-aggressive douchebags are attracted to the frats. That, or they are insufferable, out-of-touch rich boys. The stereotype is pretty much true where I am. Alone they might be okay people, but as a group, pretty much everybody who's not a part of their group hates them and their annoying bullshit.

kamikaze_tsunami · 3 months

I hate fratboys because I worked in food service in a college town.

Pepsibojangles · 3 months

because you pay to hang out with your friends.

GIJesus · 3 months

This belongs in r/circlejerk

TiltedPlacitan · 3 months

To quote a frat-boy when I was a freshman in college in the 80's:

Don't call it a frat. It's fraternity! Do you call your country a c*nt?

Yeah. He said it with a straight face. I think that just about sums it up.

wallawalla22 · 3 months

As a fraternity member myself I think there are quite a few reasons for this. Firstly, and this might be because of my school, but most fraternities have a 'right leaning' mentality to many of the members, this is already disfavor-able to reddit.

Second, there is the idea that fraternities have become an institution of anti-intellectualism by scoffing higher education with partying and complete disregard to education.

There are some legitimate reasons to not like some fraternities. An example that has been on my school's subreddit is hazing. Some fraternities literally beat and torture pledges. And unfortunately that bad press gets carried to all other greek letter societies.

BreakThruLimitations · 3 months

It's because you, Kazz3lrath, SUCK AT GUITAR HERO

LilFuniAZNBoi · 3 months

Gentlemen, as a fellow fraternity man here is a quote that I like regarding people who are close minded about fraternity life.

"From the outside looking in, you can't understand it. And from the inside looking out, you can't explain it."

stickman13 · 3 months

We don't attend college for academics, we attend college for success in life, which will be much more influenced by socials skills and connections than by gpa. So the people who are getting anal about my partying when they just want to sit at home and study on a friday night are probably just projecting some frustration onto me... or i slept with their sister. - engineering student

Flapjackdj · 3 months

I had many negative experiences with many of them when I was an undergraduate student. They were incredibly rude to me and other women, had no manners whatsoever, treated everyone like they were beneath them if they were not in the same fraternity, constantly cheated and had all of the old copies of exams, and just generally had no respect for anyone around them. Incredibly selfish, loud at nights in the apartments/dorms when others were trying to study or sleep at 3am, driving around the campus drunk and hitting people, sexually harrassing me and other women I knew, they were responsible for a number of rapes on campus, stealing other people's belongings, sneaking illegal drugs into the dorms/apartments and hiding them in other people's rooms/belongings, without their knowledge, and the list just goes on and on and on.

I have attended four universities at this point, and I've been an employee at three others. These examples I've given have happened at each and every university I've been involved with, along with the many stories I have been told from friends and colleauges who attended other schools.

I have met and befriended a handful of them on an individual basis, outside of the frat element, and I'm still friends with 3 of them after many years.

As a small woman, I am extremely wary of them and when I run into them, or other men/boys who behave like them, I instantly grab my mace in my purse and head for the nearest exit. I am also this way with Marines and it's all due to very negative and dangerous personal experiences.

I know it's biased and I know it's not right. But, in my mind, they are guilty until proven innocent. I do not care to speak to them or be anywhere near them in groups. I feel that they represent the more exaggerated and nasty traits that I loathe in the opposite sex. People might not like what I'm saying and I understand. But, it's the truth. It's how I feel and it's how I've been treated. Until they clean up their act and develop a different attitude towards other people, even the nice ones will continue to be lumped into the bad generalization by me and a lot of other people.

That said, there are a handful of academics-based fraternities and sororities that I respect. Many of the students in these groups tend to work very hard in school and have concrete goals. They get together and study and volunteer, instead of acting like a bunch of animals. Unfortunately, they are severely outnumbered by the other ones.

IplayCODsometimestoo · 3 months

[deleted]

Im_A_Scientist · 3 months

The 90% of fraternities giving the other 10% a bad name?

th3ghost · 3 months

I believe you Kazz3lrath, it would be irrational to think otherwise. But I honestly think that such organizations have no reason to exist and most of the people that are spawned from them reinforce the stereotypes that damn them in my eyes. My encounters with frat guys have left me feeling annoyed and have increased my disdain for them and their organization(s) every time.

Iable-A · 3 months

Because frats are associated with date rape and being circle jerks comprised of all scum bag steves, even though they aren't

word-vomit · 3 months

No boys/girls allowed clubs are so fucking grade school.

youhavethenerve · 3 months

Because the ratio of fratboy and douchebag is pretty high.

ivenoideawhat · 3 months

As a Canadian it's because the frats are a lame attempt at capturing half the perceived glory of a real American frat, yet all the guys (and girls in sororities) still think they are the boss.

LotusFlare · 3 months

Manufactured friendship via Stockholm Symdrome.

That's all the frats ever seem like to me. You go audition to be "friends" with a mob of people, and if they like you enough, they'll let you be their servants for a while. If you get passed that and they still like you, you get to be a "brother" as long as you continue to pay the dues. What do you get in return? You can live with them (more Stockholm syndrome!) and you can go to their parties (which you could go to anyway if you were friends with one person there).

If my whole problem with them could be condensed into one thing, it would be the mandatory nicknames. Nicknames are something that develop over time within a group of people based off jokes, talents, or whatever. They come and they go. Some people cause them to stick, some never get a real nickname in the first place because their name suits them so well. In frats, nicknames are manufactured. They actively look for opportunities to give you a nickname, and then they try to make it stick. They put it in the books, and on shirts, and on your door. This is your nickname because the frat decided it's your nickname, no matter how well or poorly is suits you. These are your friends because the frat decided they're your friends, no matter how well or poorly they suit you.

Honestly, I have nothing against people in frats. I have a lot of great friends who were in frats. It's just the friendships within them always seemed so... hollow. It's a very arbitrary limit on who you spend your time with at college.

baking_apocalypse · 3 months

My friend's bf was paralyzed because of hazing at a frat, so yeah, I'm very anti-frat because of the partying lifestyle and hazing that everyone pretends doesn't happen, but is really an epidemic.

Edit: Wow, being downvoted on an opinion based on personal experiences. Good on you reddit.

flameofmemories · 3 months

Stating the obvious here: most frat guys are complete assholes.

I know many people (probably 30+) in fraternities and almost all of them are jerks. As in, totally objectify women, will do anything to make themselves look cool/attractive, don't give a shit about anyone or anything, etc

AggieDelt · 3 months

Geeds are always gonna hate. We are too busy smashing bitches and getting drunk. I'm having fun in college and I'll still make a fuck ton of money in my dad's firm. FACT

Kid_Dr · 3 months

I know you're not bad guys. But I rushed a fraternity, pledged for about a week, and then realized a horrible mistake. The guys that had enticed me to join the fraternity are great guys, and I thought representative of the fraternity. I was wrong. One guy, "Fred", said at a pledge party, "Guys, my slam piece is now my girlfriend, I fucking hate my life". It's that kind of shit.

It's the kind of shit where they make a pledge put an empty case of Yuengling over his head and parade around drunk and naked screaming "I am box man!"

It's the kind of shit where girls tried to put their foot down and say "no", but are getting dragged upstairs by older, stronger guys.

I'm sorry, fraternity life is great in a great number of aspects, but my experience was far less than stellar. And that's the fraternity I thought best. Aside from the ones with cocaine problems, heroin problems, and assorted other things. One got kicked off campus for having a meth lab in their basement. City police came and arrested everyone involved. I'm willing to bed that those on reddit are a just the wrong sample of people to take if you're looking for love of fraternities here. Just like there are Christians on reddit who get annoyed with r/atheism.

shesellsherselfbythe · 3 months

General tendency towards rape.

bobbyscotty · 3 months

It's all the date rape. just bad PR on your guys' part.

oopsifarted · 3 months

Not saying you and your friends are...but most frat boys are asshole arrogant fuck wads. And i do mean MOST

dirtymoney · 3 months

latent homosexual bromances.

collegeisascam · 3 months

Because you're all a bunch of fucking faggots. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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