Why do people hate France?

KombatKid · 1 year

I had a French guy fill my rental car with the wrong gas intentionally (diesel instead of regular gas) while I was on my way to Mont St. Michel, a place I had wanted to see ever since I was a little kid. I gave him so many more Euros than the gas was worth upfront. Yeah I know, stupid right? I couldn't get gas any other way. It was a sunday and the gas stations were closed so you needed a card to pump your gas. I knew little french, I was helpless. I waited at this small, abonded gas station for a half hour before a middle-aged man in a van showed up. I beckoned him over saying "hello" and "help" The gas-cap said what I needed right on it and I pointed to the man to show him. He nodded his head with all my money in his hand and pumped my gas car with a full tank of diesel. When my car sputtered to a stop maybe less than a half a mile away he drove by laughing and honking. Out of all of my travels no one has ever been meaner to me in my entire life. That man ended my dream of seeing Mont St. Michel forever, maybe. I have no idea when I'll get to go back to that part of France. That's why I hate the French.

Nink · 1 year

I don't think a lot of people genuinely hate France, though France-bashing among young people has become sort of a mindless trend. But I think there are some real historical reasons that France's reputation has suffered so much in the past century. The major cause, I'd say, is what you mentioned - France has developed a pretty serious inferiority complex since its humiliation in WWII. What was once unquestionably a first-rate military and cultural power was diminished to a puppet state of the Nazis in a little over a month, and after the war, it's pride really couldn't be recovered.

Since then, and for understandable reasons, France has had trouble adjusting to a diminished role in world affairs, and has harbored resentment towards those very countries that helped liberate it, rebuild it, and establish its leading role in the EU that you mention. They were perceived by many (at least in the U.S.) as unwilling and demanding partners, all while enjoying the protection and stable peace that NATO, and the US in particular, provided. Throughout the second half of the twentieth century, France had a habit of treating "Americanism" as a comparable (or greater) evil to Communism, and focusing instead on "Europe" as a third road, glossing over the immense and vital role that the U.S. played in Europe's recovery.

More recently, the French were reluctant to intervene in the Yugoslavian wars in the '90s, even after the crimes committed there were plainly evident.

I realize this explanation is very incomplete, and takes a lot of 'facts' for granted, but I'd say its a general explanation of (at least American) negative impressions of France.

wjg10 · 1 year

It's Parisians, they aren't very nice to tourists. Now we all know tourists/travelers can be obnoxious, but come on, I've spent a lot of money and traveled a long distance to see your country out of every other country in the world. That should make you feel honored, and thus maybe act kindly to visitors. Not Parisians. I was spit on, on more than one occasion when I visited Paris.

mypsychoticself · 1 year

The US gets a lot of its culture from England which has, historically, had a bad relationship with France.

nofrillls · 1 year

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's an acute fear of mimes.

bogota · 1 year

because of tierry henry and his handball goal!

angst247 · 1 year

Personally I like the French. Studied a bit of French and admired the French resistance of WW2. I didn't like the backlash the media whipped up after France refused to support our incurson into the middle east. One thing I found rather hilarious was the phrase "cheese eating surrender monkeys" it has a certain, I don't know what.

harsesus · 1 year

The French are seen as snooty, rude, defiant and arrogant. Americans are seen as ignorant, low class, and arrogant themselves. They are bound to butt heads, culturally. They are stereotypes tho, they're fun to joke about, but if people take them seriously its a sign that are unintelligent and intolerant, whoever they are and no matter where they are from.

oohpujie · 1 year

I just got back from my first trip to Paris about a week ago. Before I left, everyone I spoke to made sure to tell me about how rude the Parisians are etc etc. I have a very, VERY rudimentary knowledge of French. I looked up several phrases and etiquette guides before leaving.

As it turns out, I found Parisians to be extremely charming. When they started speaking to me in French, I'd respond with a "Parlez-vous Anglais, s'il vous plait? Je suis desolee" (pardon the butchering of French there), and they would grin and say "Thank you for trying!" and treat me just fine.

I loved Paris, and I loved the French. I loved their food, their customs, their metro, their pain au chocolat and their Pierre Herme. I would move there in a heartbeat. Don't let people try to tell you that the French are terrible people. I find that if you try to blend in, and are extremely polite/slightly apologetic for your lack of knowledge of their language, most locals are very pleasant to interact with. Think about if you were in their shoes - a bunch of rowdy French people come up to you in a restaurant where you're trying to have a quiet meal and start yelling at you in French - how would you feel? :o (honestly I might enjoy it, but that's just me).

ugotamesij · 1 year

[deleted]

milaw · 1 year

In the years following WWII, de Gaulle sought to increase France's international standing while limiting the power of the US, which led him to take such actions as withdrawing French troops from NATO. From that time forward, France was often viewed in the US as obstructing the US politically merely for the sake of antagonizing them. What the French have at times characterized as counterbalancing US power has been seen in the US as unwarranted attempts to limit US strength. French opposition to the invasion of Iraq was viewed in a similar light.

All of this has been exacerbated by cultural tensions. Speaking in very broad generalities, the French place a high value on sophistication while the Americans tend to find anything that suggests elitism to be distasteful.

turkeypants · 1 year

I theorize that one of the reasons may be that France once dominated the world, and while its power faded, it retained that national mindset to a degree. That may rub people the wrong way - sort of an undeserved arrogance. Some might say it has manifested as France playing the role of spoiler to the actual top dogs of the modern era seemingly for the reason that it didn't want to line up and accept its lesser status, seeming to gainsay just for the sake of gainsaying. One example of this at least in some people's eyes might be France passing on the Limited Test Ban Treaty for nuclear testing, continuing to do it up to 1995, blowing up that Greenpeace boat that was protesting it in the 80s, etc.

It could just be confirmation bias beyond that point, but for decades it has seemed that if the major powers or world decides to do something, you can count on France to oppose it. It can be frustrating, though in the past 20 years at least, I think it has been a useful check on runaway exercise of power regardless if that was their actual motivation vs. just more gainsaying. This is all very general of course. Theorizing.

Britain once ruled the world, and later than France, but seems to have faded much more quickly to near-humble status after its empire evaporated than France has. America, at least as repeated in the current media narrative, has just passed its peak and is now in decline. I imagine we too will retain the mindset that we are still on top once we're having this conversation in Chinese.

CommentMan · 1 year

I've always seen it as a leftover sentiment from the days and leadership of Charles de Gaulle, who is rightly, a French nat'l hero.

Despite common history, and alliances, de Gaulle saw himself and made France as a constant political counterweight to American influence. I think we see the roots of American/French political dissonance during this period. In the American political mindset, I think he was perceived often as doing things for the end purpose of riling the American political establishment. Whether or not that reputation is deserved is debatable, but the perception was very real. He did not exude any particular diplomatic friendliness.

During the French resistance, while de Gaulle was in London helping to organize it, he was suspicious of his allies even then (again, whether his suspicions were justified are open to debate)... There is a famous quote by de Gaulle in response to Churchill's wife when she advised him "General, you must not hate your friends more than you hate your enemies."

De Gaulle's response? "France has no friends, only interests."

/jaw-drops

That this man held the coolest of feeling even to his allies during wartime and later went on to be head of government until nearly 1970, I think colored much of the political relationship between France and America, and France and Britain for years. A coloring which bled into cultural norms in the 3 societies all round.

I'm not sure most people really understand why their cultural norms are to dislike the French nowadays. I think its something they've simply grown up with at this point.

Now, why there may be/have been a chilly relationship between Britain and France surely goes back centuries.

hayze99 · 1 year

Because it's just a cultural meme. One of the earliest forms of trolling.

raffman · 1 year

I must say that my experiences with French people overall have been fantastic. I went to Paris and was sitting at an outdoor touristy trap cafe. I didn't know much French but I tried to speak the language, and I think the waiters appreciated this. I was not sure how to tip, so I very politely tried to ask this gorgeous University student sitting diagonal to me at another table how much should I tip. She understood me eventually and she just pointed at some coins. I thanked her, asked for the cheque in French at which point she just bursts out laughing giving me the thumbs up. I then invited her for a drink, tried talking to her but she knew very little English, Spanish or German (which I can speak). She then invites me to go walking and then up to her flat, where she gave me the fucking ride of my young life. I didn't know what to do afterwards but I'm pretty sure she asked me to stay. The next morning I woke up when she proved to me that the French are the best lovers and cooks. I never saw her again, but she was the best ambassador any country could ever hope for.

I also work with a French girl who is very cool and mellow and an overall great person. I think that if you treat people with respect, they will act in kind.

gaoshan · 1 year

Outside of Paris the French people I have met have been almost universally nice people. Inside of Paris, not so much.

Even had a group, business looking people, not punks, on the train to L'isle Adam (where we were staying with family) that made a point of grouping together and being rude to us because we had sat down on these folding seats at the back of the train (my wife and I and our two infants) and had fallen asleep (after a long day of walking around). Apparently when the train is crowded, which it was not when we boarded and nodded off, you are supposed to stand up and not take up so much space. I had never encountered anything like this before, coming as I do from semi-rural Ohio where there are no trains to ride, and did not know this was a rule. People finally bumped us awake and stood around us in a semi circle sneering, laughing, shaking their heads and then howling when we didn't understand them (I only speak Chinese, English and some Spanish... forgive me). I gathered the babies and our stuff, awoke my wife and stood as quickly as I could but I have to admit, they really pissed me off. Oh and in the Louvre I was struck by how the vast majority of the visitors were not French yet the display placards were only in French. Maybe put multiple languages on there for the masses of visitors who are not French speaking? Like they do in most other museums around the world?

In L'isle Adam, on the other hand, we did not meet a single rude person and, in fact, met only smiling, friendly helpful people so I don't hold it against a whole group of people. That sort of stuff is all relative.

raldi · 1 year

There are two kinds of people who hate "The French" as a whole:

People who have never been to France
People who have never been to any part of France except Paris

I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

FredMcBob · 1 year

The only thing I had ever heard about people hating France was from America right after we decided to attack Iraq/Afghanistan without approval from the UN. I recall everybody calling French Fries "Freedom Fries" and stuff like that.

What's awesome about us being mad at France for not supporting us in our unjustified war is that now the majority of our citizens also don't support the war. The difference being it took American citizens about 6 years longer than the French to realize we were wrong.

The only possibly legitimate complaint about the French that I've heard is that tourists are sometimes treated poorly/taken advantage of. I'm sure that's true of tourists in general, though.

tl;dr No problems with the French, in this American's opinion.

furlongxfortnight · 1 year

Because the French love themeselves too much.

It's like when you make fun of a friend who's too full of himself.

danilosaur · 1 year

I fucking love France, man. Upvotes for being you.

Thurokiir · 1 year

France was one of the few countries in the world that told the US "no you fucking can't invade iraq for no good goddamned reason". So US media went to town on them, besmirching their name.

lildude8242 · 1 year

my first girlfriend cheated on me with a french foreign exchange student,

i just pretty much hated french dudes after that

huh_what · 1 year

Nuclear weapon testing in the pacific didn't impress many Australians and New Zealanders.

omginternets · 1 year

FACT ALERT: 99% of people who bitch about the French fall into one of two categories.

Category 1: never been to France

Category 2: Went to France and expected the French to conform to their cultural biases. Interestingly enough, these same people yell "You're in America -- speak English!" to Mexican immigrants.

hateur · 1 year

A few points from Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong, a book about cultural differences between Americans (and English-speaking nations in general) and the French:

The French appreciate arguing and polemic in conversation. This is in contrast to English speakers, who try to emphasize what they have in common with the other person's point of view. This can easily be misinterpreted in inter-cultural situations: Americans will think the French are being agressively argumentative and rude, when they are actually just trying to make interesting conversation, the way they're used to. The French, on the other hand, will find the Americans conventional-thinking and prone to agree with anything, when they're just trying to be "nice" and keep things smooth (of course their opinions can be just as strong as anyone else's, and they can be eloquent in expressing them--they just don't make casual conversation that way; for Americans, it's all about "greasing the wheels" of social interaction).This probably doesn't come as complete news to most Americans (or French), but it still comes as a shock when they first experience it first hand.
The French will correct a foreigner's mispronunciation of French words (or slips in grammar) as a matter of politely helping that person improve themselves. Another big no-no with Americans: such a person would be called a "grammar Nazi" by Internet geeks, but in casual conversation among non-geek Americans, it would be seen as gratuitous arrogance. A (somewhat extreme) example from the book: one of the authors, a native English-speaker from Ontario (the other being a native French-speaker from Montreal, both having had lived two years in France), asks for a bottle of ice tea in a grocery store, in good French, but pronouncing Ice Tea in English (since that's what's written on the bottle). The saleswoman corrects her pronunciation: EES-TEH. So a native English-speaker is corrected about pronouncing two words of their own language by a French person speaking only basic English, with no self-consciousness at all. Amazing as it may seem, the intention was to be helpful, not arrogant. (Not really a reason for Americans to hate the French, but an illustration of how easily cultural impedance mismatch can distort image.)

(I don't have the book at hand right now, this is just what I could remember from reading it a few years ago.)

Ulys · 1 year

There are two competing ideas of nationality in france. On the one hand there's the revolutionary idea of citizenship. Everyone can become a french citizen, as long as you're loyal to the republic. On the other hand there's nationality based on race, ethnicity and origin.

A lot of french people pretend racism doesn't exist, because everyone can become a french citizen. It's why the french government has always been very reticent about measuring racism. It doesn't distinguish between french and french people. This is good in theory. In practice it's the same as living in denial.

Racism exists everywhere, and there are worse countries than france (by far). It's just that, wandering around paris, you notice that the poor/brown have been banned from the centre to the banlieus. This is also why they occasionally make a trip into town and burn a few cars to show their discontent. Riots over multiple cities shows there is something very wrong in french society.

This is what annoys me about france. The hypocrisy. The french resistance was very admirable. Vichy france wasn't. It didn't capitulate. It collaborated. It's legacy still lives on in the front national. By pretending that france liberated itself, the french pretend that collaboration never existed.

The same story with colonial france. Some french people like to pretend that racism didn't exist in the colonies. That the algerians were just as much french citizens as white frenchmen. This is of course a total lie.

I think that's what I don't like when it comes down to it. That cities like Paris are too neat, deny the dirtiness and messiness. Hide it.

I prefer london. You can see the wealth. You can also see the beggars. It's all mixed together in plain site. That's also why I like cities like Marseille.

Now that I think of it, I probably just hate the pretension of Paris.

[deleted] · 1 year

I enjoyed my time in southern France studying abroad and on vacation with my good friend's French relatives. Just awesome food and hospitality.

In Paris, it was hit-or-miss. I tried to be as unassuming and polite as possible, but I wasn't treated as well as I should have been (or comparatively when I took trips to other places in Europe despite my lack of language outside of English and my okay French). Some people were very nice, a lot of people were blase, and some people were rude. I wouldn't go back for the people, but there's a lot to like (you can say the same for America and NYC). I'd probably take a trip to Montreal over Paris if presented with the choice.

As for the general of population of the US hating on France: Cowards in wars (historically not true), the Iraq thingy, English culture for hating on the French, the occasional ridiculously rude French person who sticks in our memory, and of course Henry's goddamn handball. Generally, it's focused on the negative and disregarding the good things.

bonjourmr · 1 year

MrFox · 1 year

I love the French! Our flag is a tribute to yours. I salute Generals Humbert and Hoche and wished they had better luck! Our wild geese found safe haven in your land! Flaubert, Maupassant, Balzac!

But I do hate Henry.

hevblev · 1 year

I lived in Le Mans, France for 9 months just last year, it was my first visit to France, and I actually can't wait until I return. However, French people are hard to get along with, they are often rude, overstep boundaries, and have absolutely no idea about personal space. Also, the humour is more political and they just don't tolerate sillyness. This is only a small amount of people though, I found some really nice french people who really helped me through my stay, most of them had international links and an intrest in foreign life. One thing I must say wound me up about some French was the fact that they often made fun of people when we would try to speak their language. I went to France to improve my spoken skills, and found I got laughed at occasionally and sneered at often when i first arrived. Not only was this insulting as most of the people who did it only spoke french, but was very upsetting and slowed down my process in speaking french at a more fluent level.

I am going back though, I'm going to give the south a chance ;)

carlgorn · 1 year

I think most of the people in the United States that hate France have never been out of their hometown.

pilgrim6 · 1 year

Typically American travelers will visit several European countries and find they are treated much nicer in outside of France. I have heard many stories of the rude Frenchies from friends/family who've been to Europe. The Italians are probably the friendliest. Americans are disparaged in France, the stereotype: redneck, uneducated, overweight, shallow, obnoxious, violent, racist, homophobe, religious fundamenalist This is nothing new. It goes back hundreds of years. Benjamin Franklin and John Adams describe the same bias in their writings. Ben Franklin would wear a Racoon skin hat at the Versaille to lampoon this bias. French see themselves as sophisticated, savvy, cultured, advanced, peaceful etc etc... There is little gratitude for what the USA has done for France. WWI, WWII, for 50 years western Europe was protected from the Soviet Horde by the US Army. There were 500,000 roughneck G.I.'s were stationed in Europe at any given time during the cold war. 2year tours for 50 years that comes out to millions of Americans (many were draftees) that went to Europes defence. This is billions and billions of dollars spent. So I feel that a large reason that this "sophisticated" French society exists is in part because of the "barbaric" American system that protected it. France has spent very little $ on it's defence since WWII.

not_pdub · 1 year

Ya'll deserve to be hated for being the first country to recognize us after we declared our independence.

engineeringstudent · 1 year

The French have an equally low opinion of Americans, so don't single us out like we're the bad guys in this. (I can't speak for the rest of the world's opinion of the French.) I passed through France, and you can tell they're opinion changes the second they hear you speak.

They're just stereotypes. Once you personally meet and talk with someone from a country you stereotype, you usually find that you were wrong. But until then, the average person adopts the public opinion as their own

clamdoctor · 1 year

I think you misunderstand our general ribbing of France.

We make fun of France because the cities are too beautiful, the food too good, the language too romantic, the women too elegant, the history too riveting etc.

We have to tease France to bring France down a peg else France will put us all to shame.

We don't hate you. We kid because we love.

jceez · 1 year

France is awesome. Studied the language in High School, love the food, the women and the wine. BUT in my experiences, while traveling in other countries, a lot of French people I have met have a superiority complex (culturally) and are rude. (While in China, I heard this on 2 separate occasions 1) Chopsticks are so stupid! 2) How can a restaurant not have salt? This is so stupid!)

I then explained to the French guy (we were sharing the table with a few other solo travelers) that most Asian food uses soy sauce to make things salty, not salt. He still thought it was 'stupid'.

I've also been grilled about George W on 3 different occasions by French people.

http://www.euronews.net/2009/07/09/french-named-as-world-s-worst-tourists/

Others think so also.

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